(资料)美M1863春田活门50-7铜壳整装弹的生产工序(付翻...

北朝旧贴 | ぱるる大好き! | 8/15/2020 | 共 21603 字 | 编辑本页

ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 09:37:59 发表了:

本帖最后由 ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-13 12:25 编辑

网上找到的美国军械局关于 M1863 春田活门使用的 12.7MM 铜壳中心发火黑火药弹的一份资料,先选取其中关于生产工序的介绍整理成文本发上来(因为原文件是 PDF 格式,发不上来),各个部分介绍的十分详细,感觉翻译过来就可以作为同人了。本身 M1863 春田活门就是从美军原本使用的前装春田米涅步枪改造而来,是一款黑火药铜壳直筒中心发火有缘步枪弹,而且在美军中同时用于加特林机枪的子弹。0.5 英寸(12.7MM)的口径十分贴近 13MM 的伏波军标准口径,是理想的伏波军黑火药整装弹的原型。这份文件里其他还有关于军械局的测试结果,十万发子弹的成本和耗材等资料,因为是表格,可能得以图片的形式发上来

最近有点时间,先简单翻译一下,方便各位阅读http://firearmsworld.net/ammo/ammopod/ammopord.htm 这个帖子关于 56 式步枪弹的生产流程,技术大致上还是差不多的,可以看看这个方便理解


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 09:38:20 发表了:

THE CENTER-FIRE METALLIC-CASE CARTRIDGE.

The successful invention of the self-primed metallic-case cartridge has greatly simplified the construction of breech-loading small arms. Prior to its introduction and use, the prevention of the escape of flame through the joint of the breech was of difficult if not impossible accomplishment, and complicated arrangements of the breech mechanism had to be resorted to with at best unsatisfactory results. The metallic cartridge overcomes this difficulty, being itself a perfect gas-check renewed at every round, prevents foulness and wear of the mechanism, and exercises the most vital functions in the life of the arm. So important an element is it that it may be said that, with a perfect cartridge, the most indifferent breech arrangement can be used with safety and efficiency.

Its advantages, other than that already indicated, are many; its completeness and simplicity, being self-primed, and used as a whole in loading; its strength and safety, withstanding the roughest usage and thoroughly protecting the powder and fulminate; its accuracy, because of the coincidence of the axes of the bore and bullet; and, added to these, the absolute impossibility of using more than one cartridge at a time.

That adopted by the Ordnance Department is known as the CENTER-FIRE. The superiority of this system over the rim-fire is so marked as will undoubtedly lead to its universal adoption. By concentrating the percussion composition in the center of the head the quantity used is reduced to a minimum, to less than one-fourth of what is required to prime the entire circumference in the rim-fire, and this smaller quantity is so much better protected as not to be at all liable to accidental explosions. The central portion of the head has more elasticity than the rim, and is better able to resist the strain upon it from the sudden action of the fulminate, besides having the additional advantage of permitting the reinforcing of the rim, thus strengthening the weakest portion of the cartridge case.

The U. S. regulation center-fire metallic cartridge consists of the following parts, viz.:

The CASE.

The CUP ANVIL.

1/2 grain of PERCUSSION COMPOSITION.

70 grains of MUSKET Powder, and—

A lubricated LEADEN BULLET weighing 450 grains.

The case is the copper tube which forms the receptacle for the powder charge, the percussion composition, and the leaden bullet. Its exterior conformation is designed to facilitate its ready extraction from the chamber of the gun after firing. Besides the rim at the closed end, which is intended primarily to assist extraction, the case is tapered from the rear to a point where it seizes the bullet, whence it merges into a right cylinder. The cup anvil is a small metallic cup, of sufficient rigidity to resist the blow of the hammer communicated by the firing pin, and of such form as to insure the passage of the flame to the powder charge upon the explosion of the percussion composition. It is provided with a circular recess or cavity into which the percussion composition is deposited. Two little vents, at the extremities of a diameter of this recess, direct the flame to the charge.

The cup, when charged with the composition, is placed within the copper case, pressed snugly against its closed end, and crimped firmly into position. Cups were formerly made of sheet-iron tin-plate, but they are now made of copper. (*See “CHEMICAL AND VOLTAIC ACTION.”)" The bullet enters more than half its length into the case, in order that the lubricant in its grooves may be entirely covered and protected. To render the cartridge water proof, the edge of the case is crimped hard against the bullet.


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 09:38:50 发表了:

本帖最后由 ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-24 16:20 编辑

THE CASE.

THE COPPER.

The sheet copper for making the cases is No. 22 wire gauge(0.644 毫米), obtained in strips 35 inches long, 3.3 inches wide, and from .025 to .027 inch thick. The ends of these strips are cut at an angle to avoid waste, and each strip gives material for 40 cases, with one-fourth scrap. In the selection of sheets for making the cases, such only should be chosen as appear to have been rolled in a careful manner. They must be free from any the slightest seams, blisters, or flaws, and of an even thickness throughout, well annealed, and trimmed to the foregoing dimensions.

The best copper ores are mined on the shores of Lake Superior. The “Minnesota Mines,” and the most approved brands of “Detroit" smelting, should be selected in preparing metal for cartridge purposes.

Most of the copper heretofore used at Frankford Arsenal has been procured from the mills at Bloomfield, N. J. It is not pure, as received from the mills, being alloyed with 5 per centum of spelter.铜用作弹壳原料的铜皮应为 0.644 毫米厚,切成 35 英寸(889 毫米)长,3.3 英寸宽(83.82),0.025 至 0.027 英寸(即铜皮厚度)厚的长条,其两端应切成一定之斜角以避免浪费,每条可加工出 40 个弹壳,剩余 4/1 的金属为边角料。用来制作弹壳的铜皮应被仔细的卷成卷,不得有任何的折痕或气泡,厚度应一致,退火良好。

DOUBLE ACTION PRESS.

The first operation in drawing the tubes is performed by the Double ACTION PRESS.

The strips of copper are prepared for the press by straightening their ends and edges, if necessary, with a hand mallet, and oiling both surfaces. The strips are then fed to the press by hand, a small stop on the die-plate regulating the length of feed.

The first shape given to the future cartridge case is that of a flat circular disk, 1.7 inch in diameter, cut from the copper strips fed under the double-punch of this press. This punch is essentially a punch within a punch; the exterior one cutting the disk clear from the strip, while the interior one descends and forces it through a tapered die, giving it a shallow, cup shape, 1.06 inch in diameter, and .55 inch deep. After passing through and beyond the tapered die, the cup expands slightly, and is stripped from the interior punch as the latter ascends.

Two rows of disks are cut from each strip, one disk at a time. They are cut and cupped at the rate of seventy-five a minute. Experience has proven that a width of strip giving only two rows of disks is better than a width giving three or more rows, the former being rolled to a more uniform thickness and subject to less percentage of waste.双动冲压拉制弹壳的第一步是双动冲压要准备进行冲压,首先加强铜条的边缘和两端,如果需要可以用手持木槌,然后往两面涂油润滑。然后用手将铜条喂入冲压机,喂入的深度则由冲床上的一个小限位器(?不知道怎么翻)控制。铜料首先被冲剪(是这个词吗?)成直径 1.7 英尺(43.18 毫米)的圆片状毛坯,喂到双冲头(不知道应该怎么翻译)下面。这个冲头本质上就是一个冲头套一个冲头,外面的冲头(国内称为下料冲头)将它从铜条上切下的同时下面的冲头(冲盂冲头)继续向下将它压进一个有坡度的冲模,将它压成较浅的杯状(铜盂)直径 1.06 英寸(24.92 毫米),0.55 英寸深(13.97 毫米)。(以上与现代工艺一致)铜盂在穿过冲模后会稍微扩张,然后由下一个铜盂压下时从模具上顶下来。每个铜条会冲压出两排毛坯,每次冲压一个,冲压速率为每分钟 75 个铜盂。经验证明每条铜条的宽度只供冲压出两排毛坯要比冲压出三或四排更为优越,这样可以保证更加均匀的厚度和更少的浪费。

SINGLE ACTION PRESSES.

In order to draw the cups to the dimensions required for the finished cases, they are subjected to the action of four additional punches and dies of decreasing sizes, so as to gradually elongate the cups while reducing their diameters. These draws are made by. SINGLE ACTION PRESS, having each a single punch and die.

The first press elongates the cup to .96 of an inch, and reduces its diameter to .81 of an inch.

The second press elongates it to 1.3 inch, and reduces the diameter to .69 of an inch, thus lengthening out the cup into a tube.

These tubes, at this stage, are annealed after a process to be presently described.

The third press elongates the tube to 1.52 inch, and reduces its diameter to 60 of an inch.

The fourth press brings the tubes to the required exterior diameter of .50 of an inch, the extreme permissible variation of which is .002 of an inch; but they are left of unequal lengths and with ragged edges.

These presses are fed at the rate of sixty-five tubes a minute, by placing them upright on a revolving horizontal plate provided with guides and stops. *

\* Great care must be taken in the preparation of the dies and punches for these presses.

The dies should be made with as hard and smooth a surface as possible, otherwise they will turn out inferior work and wear very rapidly. To prevent them from splitting, they are made hard inside and soft outside, by imbedding them in powdered charcoal in a cast iron box, heating them in a furnace to a cherry red, then passing a stream of salt water through them until cold. (; bushel salt to 20 gallons water.) The inner surfaces are afterwards smoothed with a lead mandrel, and thoroughly polished with crocus cloth. The very best steel should be used, and American brands are, for this purpose, far superior to the best imported.

The punches are made by being brought to a cherry red in a charcoal fire; Nos. 1 and 2 being then dipped in water, Nos. 3 and 4 in sulphuric acid, and all cooled in oil. The temper is afterward slightly drawn to permit them to be straightened, if necessary.单动式冲压为了将弹壳抽成成品要求的尺寸,它们需要经过另外四次尺寸逐渐减小的模具的冲压,以将其逐渐一边拉长一边减小其直径。这些拉深由单动式冲压完成,每个只有一个冲头。第一次冲压将弹壳拉长到 0.96 英寸(24.384 毫米),其直径减少到 0.81 英寸(20.574 毫米)第二次冲压将弹壳拉长到 1.3 英寸(33.03 毫米),直径降低到 0.69 英寸(17.526 毫米),由此将其由杯状变为管状经过二次拉深后需要经过退火第三次冲压将弹壳拉长到 1.52 英寸(毫米),直径降低到 0.6 英寸(15.24 毫米)第四次冲压将直径降低要求的到 0.5 英寸(12.7 毫米),允许的最大误差为 0.002 英寸(0.0505 毫米)但是经过引伸加工的铜盂口部不平整,且长度不均。在这一步骤应每分钟向冲压机喂入 65 个弹壳,将其直立放置于一个水平旋转的圆盘上,圆盘上有导轨和限位器(不确定翻得是否正确)注:这些凹模需要用尽可能硬的材料制造,表面要尽可能的光滑,否者它们就会造出残次品或损耗得很快。为了防止开裂,它们应该被造的外侧软内侧硬。为此要将它埋入木炭粉放进一个铸铁盒,加热直至 cherry red(即 815 到 870 摄氏度),然后置于流动的盐水(每 20 加仑水放 0.5 蒲式耳的盐,即 75.7082 升水中放……..多少盐我也不知道,因为美国一蒲式耳的粗盐是 70 磅,一蒲式耳的细盐是 50 磅,这里先按粗盐算吧,即 31.75 公斤)中直至冷却,然后用一个铅制的心轴(不懂工程,不确定是不是这么翻)磨光,然后用磨粉布仔细的磨光。应该用最好的钢制造凹模。冲模应用炭火烧至 cherry red(同上),第一第二个应该浸入水中,第三第四个应浸入硫酸中(淬火?),四个都应在油中冷却。The temper is afterwardslightly drawn to permit them to be straightened, if necessary.这是关于回火的,但我不懂冶金,这句话看不懂,哪位大神翻译一下 ANNEALING

The tubes are annealed, after the second draw, as stated above, to restore to the metal its ductility, the previous operations having rendered it hard and brittle. The number of annealings required during the entire process of manufacture, will depend on the quality of the metal used; with the best copper only one is necessary. The annealing is done by placing the tubes in a perforated iron cylinder, heating them red hot in a charcoal fire, revolving the cylinder meanwhile to equalize the heat, then plunging them into a solution of one part sulphuric acid and fifteen parts water, and, afterward, thoroughly washing in several changes of water to remove all trace of acid. The acid solution (pickle) is intended to cleanse the metal from any scale, or oxide, occasioned by the annealing.退火如上所诉,弹壳要在第二次拉深之后进行退火,以恢复材料的延性,之前的操作使得它又硬又脆。整个生产过程中需要进行的退火次数取决于所使用的材料的质量,最好的铜材只需要一次退火。退火的具体方式是将弹壳置于有孔的铁质圆筒,将其在炭火中加热至红热,旋转圆筒使其均匀受热,然后放进盐酸与水 1 比 15 混合的溶液里,之后换数遍水完全洗净弹壳上的酸。酸溶液是用于去除金属上退火时产生的鳞片或氧化物的。

TIE TRIMMING MACHINE.

The finishing draw having left the tubes of unequal lengths and with ragged edges, it is necessary, in order to facilitate the subsequent steps of manufacture, and insure uniformity in the finished cartridges, to remove the ragged edges, and to reduce the tubes to an uniform length.

This is done by means of the TRIMMING MACHINE. The tubes are placed in the trough of this machine, whence they are taken up by a revolving mandrel, against which, and just inside of a shoulder upon the same, the edge of a circular cutter is pressed. The tube, when brought to position by the mandrel, is cut clean and even by the cutter, a stripper removing the tube and scrap after each operation.

To allow for the metal that is used in forming the head or rim, the tubes are cut a little longer than the headed case.

The tubes are trimmed by this machine at the rate of eighty a minute.切口机经过引伸加工的弹壳口部不平整,长度过长。为了保证成品弹壳大小形状一致,要把口部多余的一部分切掉,使剩下的弹壳长度一致。这一过程是在切口机上完成的。弹壳被放置在机器的凹槽中,一个旋转的轴(不知道 mandrel 怎么翻)将其从凹槽里捡起,然后………………….(后面不会翻,总之某种机械将弹壳口部多余的部分切下来了),切口机每次运转,一个 stripper(不是你想的那个意思,嗯哼)会吧弹壳和切下来的边角料移开。为了留出形成底部底火座和凸缘的材料,留下的弹壳长度比成品略长切口机每分钟可切 80 个弹壳 REMOVING THE OIL.

In all the operations previous to and succeeding the annealing, lard oil of the best quality is the lubricant used. But as the smallest particle of oil will impair the efficiency of the percussion composition, it is of the last importance that all vestiges of it be removed from the interior of the tube before the percussion composition is inserted.

The flattening of the closed end of the tube by the next operation would, if the oil were not previously removed, retain a greater or less quantity of it in the interior fold of the rim, from which no subsequent process could entirely remove it, and from which it would be liable to exude, in the finished cartridge, to the destruction of the percussion composition.

The present unheeded condition of the tube, therefore, affords the most favorable opportunity for removing the oil, which is done by washing the tubes in a solution of 1.5 lbs. potash, 14 lbs. soda, and 5 gallons of water, temperature 120°, for seven minutes, and afterwards rinsing them thoroughly in clean warm water, using revolving wire barrel partially immersed in it.除油退火之后的所有工序都需要用质量上好的猪油来润滑,但是这些小微粒会对底火造成不利影响,因此在装入底火成分之前将铜盂上的一切润滑油的残余清洗干净是十分重要的如果油脂没有完全去除,则在下一个工序压平弹壳闭口一端时会多少在凸缘的内部残留一些,而在之后无法以任何方式清除之。这些残留在成品弹药中的油脂可能泄露出来破坏底火成分。清除润滑油的溶液为 1.5 磅的碳酸钾,14 磅的苏打混合 5 加仑的水,温度为 120 度(大概是华氏度),然后装入旋转的铁丝筒中部分浸在水里以温水洗净。HEADING MIACHINE.

The head or rim of the cartridge case is next formed by the HEADING MACHINE. This machine consists of a horizontal die countersunk at one end for shaping the head; a feed punch to insert the tubes into the die; and a heading punch to flatten the closed end of the tubes into the countersink.

The tubes, which are a little longer than the headed case, are fed into the inclined trough of the Heading Machine, whence they are taken up on the feed punch. A shoulder on this punch, at a distance from its extremity equal to the inner depth of the headed case, prevents it from extending to the full depth of the tube, and a surplus of metal is thereby left at the closed end of the tube for the formation of the head.

The feed punch inserts the tube into the die, and holds it there, while the heading punch moves forward by a powerful cam and presses and folds the unsupported, projecting portion of the tube into the countersink of the die, forming and accurately shaping the head or rim.

The headed case being left in the die as the feed-punch recedes, is pushed out by the succeeding tube, and thrown by a flipper into the receptacle below.

No oil is used in this operation, the moisture of the tubes from the recent washing sufficing as a lubricant.

The machine is fed at the rate of sixty-five per minute.

The cases are now finished; but to be certain that the oil is entirely removed from them, they are again washed in the alkaline solution, and dried thoroughly in a drying room, at a temperature of about 125° Fahrenheit.压头机子弹的凸缘部分由压头机压制成型。这个机器由一个水平的埋头孔型凹模在一端用于将凸缘压成型,一个喂料冲头(?)用于将弹壳插入凹模中和一个冲模用于将弹壳的闭口一端压入凹模且压平。这些较压头后的弹壳略长的铜坯沿着一个倾斜的凹槽喂入压头机,然后被喂料冲头拾起。喂料冲头有一个突起的肩部位于成品弹壳长度的位置,使得冲头无法一直插到弹壳的底部,剩余底部突出没有支撑的部分用于形成弹壳的底部(包括底缘)喂料冲头将弹壳插入底模并将它固定在这个位置,同时由一个强力的凸轮驱动的压头冲头移动过来,将没有被喂料冲头支撑的突出的那部分弹壳压扁,压进埋头孔型凹模的凹陷,准确地形成凸缘的形状完成压头的弹壳在喂料冲头退出时会留在底模上,直到被下一个弹壳推出,然后被一个翻片扔到下面的容器中。这个工序无需用油润滑,前一步清洗时留下的水分就足以润滑了机器每分钟可加工 65 个弹壳现在弹壳已经完成,但是必须保证润滑用的油脂已经完全被清除。弹壳需要再一次在碱性溶液中清洗,然后置于 51 度摄氏度的温度的干燥室内进行完全干燥。


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 09:39:16 发表了:

本帖最后由 ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-6-18 15:26 编辑

THE CUP ANVIL

THE DOUBLE ACTION PRESS.

The cup anvil is made by a DOUBLE ACTION PRESS similar to the one for cutting and cupping the disks for the copper cases.

The best charcoal sheet-iron tin-plate, in strips 18 inches long, 6.25 inches wide, and 0.4 inch thick, was formerly used for making the cup anvils; but recently they have been made from unannealed copper, in strips 20 inches long, 3.125 inches wide, and 0.48 inch thick.

One pound of sheet-iron tin-plate gives one hundred and fifty cups, and five ounces of scrap. One pound of copper gives one hundred and fifteen cups, and six ounces of scrap. The sheet metal for cups must be free from all defects, with a bright, smooth surface, and uniform in thickness throughout. The cups are cut and formed by this machine at the rate of seventy-five a minute.双动冲压制作底火座的双动冲压类似于前文中冲压弹壳的同样工序过去底火座由 18 英寸长,6.25 英寸宽,0.4 英寸厚的木炭铁(用木炭冶炼的铁)马口铁皮制作,但进来他们改用 20 英寸长,3.125 英寸宽,0.48 英寸厚的未退火的铜皮制作一磅的马口铁可制作 150 个铜帽,并留下 5 盎司的边角料。一磅黄铜可造 115 个火帽,留下 6 盎司的边角料。用于制造底火的金属片表面必须平滑光亮,不得有任何凹陷,整片厚度一致。每分钟机器可切割和压制 75 个铜帽。

CUP TRIMINING MIACHINE.

The cup anvils, as they come from the Double Action Press, are of the right diameter, but too long, and with ragged edges. The cups are reduced to an uniform height by cutting off the ragged edges in the CUP TRIMMING MACHINE, which consists of a revolving rose cutter, made of a number of small cutters that can be changed and

sharpened at pleasure.

The cups are fed to the cutters through a vertical trough, and are trimmed at the rate of forty-five a minute.

CUP TRIMMING MACHINE

The vents are punched in the trimmed cups by the CUP TRIMMING MACHINE, which is provided with a two-pointed punch and corresponding dies.

The cups are fed by hand on a revolving circular plate, at the rate of seventy per minute.

CUP IMIPRESSION MIACHINE.

The circular depression in the bottom of the cup, which serves as the receptacle for the percussion composition, is formed by the CUP IMPRESSION MACHINE.

The cups are fed through a vertical trough at the rate of eighty per minute. The trough has a flat pan at the top, into which the cups in quantities are emptied, and where they are arranged so as to present the proper end to the punch in passing through the machine.

This machine not only forms the recess, but gauges the cup at the same time. The cups thus completed are well washed in an alkaline solution, to remove all traces of oil, and then thoroughly dried.

RETINNING THIE CUPS.

If sheet-iron tin-plate is used for the cup anvils, the cup is next retinned, in order to cover the iron edges left exposed by the Trimming and Venting Machines. This is necessary to prevent deterioration by the moisture of the fulminate.

The tin for this process is prepared by placing “Banca tin,” in the pig, into a kettle, and adding a small quantity of rosin while the same is melting, stirring and skimming it until the surface is perfectly clean.

The cups are prepared for the process in the following manner: They are first washed in a solution of soda and potash, (10 ounces each to one gallon of water;) afterwards put into a pickle of 10 parts of water to 1 part of muriatic acid; washed in clean water; shaken in a solution of sal-ammoniac, (1 gallon of water to 4 ounces of sal-ammoniac;) dried and sprinkled with pulverized rosin.

The cups thus prepared are lowered slowly into the melted tin, in a wire basket, where they remain until they are of the same temperature as the tin, when they are taken out and emptied on a clean bench, after being well shaken. The cups are thus recoated with tin, but the deposit is rough and uneven.

The roughness of the tin is remedied in the following manner: The tin in the kettle is purified by skimming it clean, after sprinkling dry saw dust over it to absorb the rosin and other impurities. Tallow enough is then added to cover the tin about one-quarter of an inch deep, and the cups in the wire basket are passed slowly through the tallow two or three times. The basket is then shaken over the kettle and swung several times. through the air with a quick jerk to distribute the tin evenly over the surface of the cups; after which the cups are cooled in lard oil. They are then washed in a strong solution of potash and soda, to remove all traces of oil.

One pound of bismuth to each pot of tin will make it flow more evenly over the work.


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 09:39:37 发表了:

本帖最后由 ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 09:51 编辑

THE PERCUSSION COMPOSITION.

The PFRCUSSION COMPOSITION consists of

Fulminate of mercury, by weight----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------35 parts.

Chlorate of potash,   “ ” -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------16 “

Glass dust,          “ ” -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------45 “

Gum Arabic,         “ ” -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------2 “

Gum tragacanth,     “ ” --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------2 “

These are mixed without danger by using the fulminate in a moist state, the water having been entirely drained from it. The chlorate of potash being well triturated, and the glass dust properly prepared, the ingredients are put into a China bowl and thoroughly mixed, using a small steel spatula for the purpose. The dissolved gums will contain sufficient water to reduce the composition to a thick paste, it being used in the machine

of this consistency.

Glass dust for the percussion composition is prepared for use in the following manner: Broken French plate glass only is used. The glass is washed clean and dried; it is then broken into small pieces, put into an iron mill or rolling barrel, running from twelve to fifteen revolutions per minute, and ground for a time; after which it is forced through hair sieves of 40 meshes to the inch to remove the lumps; and what remains is sifted on hair sieves of 140 meshes to the inch to remove the impalpable powder. What is left on this sieve is free from dust and lumps, and is of good grit and ready for use.

PRIMING MACHANE.

The percussion composition of the consistency of thick paste is deposited in the recess of the cup by the PRIMING MACHINE–a very ingenious piece of mechanism which performs this important operation with the greatest accuracy and certainty, and with perfect safety.

Its principal parts are: 1st, the central revolving spindle, with four tubular feeders at its head, which deposit the percussion composition in the cups; 2d, the magazine on the right, and 3d, the circular plate on the left, on which the unprimed cups are fed to the machine.

The four tubular composition feeders at the head of the spindle consist each of a small depending stem, down which a closely fitting tube is made to slide—the lower edge projecting a little below the end of the stem. By the revolving motion of the spindle these tubular feeders are brought successively over the magazine and over the cups to be primed.

At the moment a feeder is presented over the magazine, which is a shallow dish containing the percussion composition, the magazine rises until its metal bottom is in contact with the tube, a slight shaking motion of the magazine during its progress serving to deposit compactly into the open projecting end of the tube a sufficient quantity of com position for the priming of a single cup. The magazine then recedes, while the revolving spindle carries the charged feeder to the circular plate on the left, which presents the cups for priming. The motion of this plate is from left to right, while that of the spindle is from right to left, whereby the feeders and cups are made to meet and leave each other in opposite directions. The plate is provided with eight upright movable stems, on the ends of which the unprimed cups are fed.

As the cups and feeders are brought, by the revolutions of the plate and spindle, in a vertical line with each other, the cups are raised by their stems so as to receive the percussion composition exactly in their circular recesses from the tubes of the feeders. The tube, at the moment of contact with the cup, slides up its depending stem and frees the composition from its end, which is pressed, by the upward motion of the cup, snugly into the circular recess. The feeders and cups in parting leave each other horizontally, in opposite directions, so that the percussion composition is sheared off evenly and smoothly with the bottom surface of the cup. A specific quantity of composition is thus deposited in the recess of each cup at each operation.

The principal difficulty heretofore encountered in perfecting a machine of this kind is entirely overcome by the use of this peculiar feeder. This machine primes at the rate of thirty-five per minute.

TAPERING MIACHINE.

While the composition is still moist in the circular recesses of the cups, the latter are put into the headed cases and crimped into position, the cases being tapered at the same time.

This operation is performed by the TAPERING MACHINE, which consists of four vertical tapered dies, with stems projecting from their centers on which the cases and cups are fed; the crimpers which work from the sides of the dies; and the descending punch which forces the cases into the dies.

The primed cups are placed on the ends of the stems projecting from the dies, and the cases are placed over them. By the revolution of the horizontal plate on which the dies are placed, each die is in succession brought under the descending punch which forces the cases into the dies, and presses their heads hard against the primed cups, while the crimpers move forward from the side and bite the cups snugly and firmly into place.

The central stem rises out of the die as the latter leaves the punch, and the case is removed by a spring.

The section of the case which is to envelop the bullet is not tapered by this machine, it being left in the form of a right cylinder whose inner diameter is the same as that of the bullet. This gives the bullet a securer hold in the case, and helps to make the cartridge water-proof.


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 09:39:59 发表了:

本帖最后由 ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 09:57 编辑

THE BULLET.

THE LEAD

The United States elongated service bullets are made by compression by means of machinery adapted to this purpose. They are uniform in size and weight, smoother and more homogeneous, more accurate, and give better results than cast and swaged bullets.

The lead for bullets should be pure soft lead of commerce, of specific gravity about 11.35, which is increased by pressure to about 11.45, and which melts at 600°Fahrenheit, and volatilizes at red heat.

The lead is first melted and skimmed of dross—amounting to 5 per centum in good lead—and cast in iron molds into cylindrical bars .59 of an inch in diameter and 20 inches long. These bars are passed through rolls which reduce them to .42 of an inch in diameter and increase their length to 36 inches. The surplus lead, if any, is trimmed off in rolling.

A man will cast, in a day of ten hours, fifteen hundred bars of lead.

A man and boy will roll and trim, in a day of ten hours, three thousand bars of lead.

BUILLET MIACHINE.

The bars are fed to the BULLET MACHINE through a vertical tube above a horizontal cutter, which cuts, at each stroke, a length sufficient to form a single bullet, and transfers it to the die, * in which, by means of a vertical punch, the bullet is formed with its grooves. The surplus lead is forced out at the junction of the dies, in the direction of the longer axis of the bullet, and at the junction of the punch and dies at its head.

A Bullet Machine will make, in a day of ten hours, thirty thousand bullets.

\* Note —The dies and punches for the bullet machines are made with great care of the best cast-steel. The dies are cut out with cherries to the form and dimensions of the bullet, and have as hard and smooth a surface as it is possible to give them. They are hardened in pure cold water, and the temper drawn to a light straw color.

They are made in such a manner that only small portions of their faces just surrounding the base of the bullet maybe in contact while the bullet is being formed.

EULLET TRIMINIING MIACHINE.

The operation of trimming the bullet is performed by the BULLET TRIMMING MACHINE. The bullets are fed by hand into a revolving perforated circular plate, whence they are forced by a punch through trimmers which open from the point to the base of the bullet, and which conform to its shape, a cutter at the same time passing over the base.

After this they are forced by the punch through a gauge under the trimmer.

The bullets do not vary more than one or two grains above or below their prescribed

weight.

The best lard oil is used with these machines.

A boy will trim and gauge, in a day of ten hours, fifteen thousand bullets.

THE LUBRICANT.

The LUBRICANT for bullets is made of

Bayberry tallow, by weight----------------------------------------------------------------- 8 parts.

Graphite, by weight ---------------------------------------------------------------------------1 part.

The latter must be of the best quality, and free from grit. The bullets should be lubricated by machinery, whenever possible, as the grooves are more surely and completely filled and more closely packed by mechanical pressure.

Experiment has shown that one of the best lubricants for use with the gun and in the Lubricating Machine is Japan wax. It gives a very small per centum of fouling, and works freely in the machine. The question of a proper lubricant, however, is still an open one, and further experiments will be made to determine the best lubricant, and with a view to using a larger quantity than can now be held in the cannelures(即铅弹外的环状凹槽)of the bullet.

LUBRHCATING MACHINE.

The lubrication of the bullet is done by the Lubricating MACHINE. The lubricant is moulded into cylinders of about 10 inches in length. These cylinders are fed to the machine through a vertical tube, pressure being applied to keep the supply constant. The bullets are placed by hand in a perforated revolving vertical plate and forced by a punch through a sizing gauge fixed in the bottom of the tube, which is pierced with small holes. The lubricant is forced through these holes into the grooves of the bullet, filling them completely.

In cold weather an arrangement for slightly warming the lubricant should be provided.

A boy will lubricate, in a day of ten hours, fifteen thousand bullets.


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 09:40:37 发表了:

LOADING.

LOADING MACHINE

The cases are now loaded with powder and bullet by means of the LOADING MACHINE, which consists of a revolving circular plate with holes or receivers, and a hopper and powder measure. The cases and bullets are fed on revolving plates, thirty-five a minute; the former are lifted into the receivers, passed under the hopper and measure for a charge of powder, and then under the bullet feeder for a lubricated bullet. In order to insure

a full charge in each cartridge the machine is provided with a bell which gives notice to the operative of any failure in this particular. The edge of the case is then crimped on the bullet in a very simple manner. The receivers are smaller at the top where the bullet enters than at the bottom where the case is received, the diameter of the former being only equal to that of the interior of the open end of the latter. After the bullet has been pressed into the case, the cartridge is lifted, so that the edge of the case is forced into the conical surface of the receiver, between its larger and smaller diameters.

Note—To Mr. Robert Bolton's great practical experience in the management and use of metals, and

his painstaking, perseverance, and capacity as master workman in charge, the success of the manufacture of

metallic ammunition is largely due.

The priming, tapering, loading, and other special cartridge machines used in the manufacture have been

designed by Mr. J. H. GILL, foreman, and built at this arsenal under his immediate supervision. Great mechanical ingenuity and skill have been exercised in their arrangement and construction, and they are believed to be the

most complete and efficient machines of the kind known.

The powder is placed in a pasteboard hopper, about two feet above the machine, and is fed to the cases through a paper tube one inch in diameter; the hopper and tube stand inside of a large conical shield of boiler iron.

During the process of manufacture accidents are only possible with the Loading Machine, and, consequently, every precaution has been taken to provide against their occurrence. As the machine is now made and arranged, the explosion of one cartridge may communicate fire to the few charged cases near it without danger. The entire charge of powder in the hopper may be thus exploded without the possibility of injury, either to the operative or to the machine, as the hopper and tube offer but slight resistance to the action of the gases that expend their forces in every direction without affecting the stability of the protecting shield. This has been proved by experimentally exploding full charges of two and a half pounds in the hopper itself. But the explosion of a cartridge in the operation of loading is of very rare occurrence. Out of the many millions loaded at Frankford Arsenal in the past four years, a trifling number only have exploded prematurely, resulting in no damage whatever.

After loading, the cartridges are wiped clean, and put up in paper packages, and packed in wooden boxes for storage or issue.


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 09:40:57 发表了:

BLANK CARTRIDGES.

The BLANK CARTRIDGE consists of a copper case, 70 grains of musket powder, a cup anvil, 1/2 grain percussion powder, and a patch of black wax. The copper for blank cartridges is rolled in strips 35 inches long, 3.2 inches wide, and .024 of an inch thick; each strip will cut forty-two disks. The process of manufacture of the cases, etc., is the same as for the ball cartridges up to the point of loading. This is done by boys, by hand, the case being loaded by a charger, and closed by pressing a piece of soft black wax upon the open end. The cartridges are then wiped clean and the waxed end touched with shellac varnish. They are afterward put up in suitable paper boxes, which are packed in wooden boxes for transportation.

The black wax, which is entirely dissipated by firing, is made by boiling for two hours, 15 lbs. beeswax, and 1 lbs. rosin, in one gallon of pine tar.

PACKING.

The cartridges are put up in paper boxes holding twenty rounds. Each box is arranged for two rows of ten, the rear row being higher than the front, each alternate cartridge having its rim below that of the other, for facility in loading and close packing. The frames and skeleton divisions of the boxes are made of tarred boards, the shapes of each part being cut with punches and dies, and such as require it being creased for folding. The frame of the box is covered with stout paper, bearing a printed description of the contents, and projecting far enough over to paste down the lid securely. For convenience in opening the box a piece of strong twine is fastened at one end of the box, and pasted along the inside of the seam of the lid, the loose end projecting a few inches.

A girl will make, in a day of ten hours, two hundred paper boxes. The cartridges are packed, for storage or transportation, in wooden boxes containing fifty packages each. These ammunition boxes are painted, and the description of con tents is stencil-marked on the ends, the date of fabrication on the sides, and the place of fabrication on the interior of the lid.


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 10:54:04 发表了:

本帖最后由 ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 10:56 编辑

这些是不少人很在意的成本问题


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 13:13:08 发表了:

没有人过来讨论吗.....................


k.xerxes 于 2018-4-18 13:15:43 发表了:

蛋壳可以考虑改一下? 去掉凸缘, 会更适合自动武器。


深潜者 于 2018-4-18 13:17:35 发表了:

k.xerxes 发表于 2018-4-18 13:15 蛋壳可以考虑改一下? 去掉凸缘, 会更适合自动武器。

去掉凸缘生产难度大幅增加,何必呢?

反正用弹链的自动武器(机枪)基本上不在乎有没有凸缘。


兰度 于 2018-4-18 13:17:42 发表了:

k.xerxes 发表于 2018-4-18 13:15

蛋壳可以考虑改一下? 去掉凸缘, 会更适合自动武器。

目前能造直筒凸缘弹壳就不错了。


深潜者 于 2018-4-18 13:18:15 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-18 13:13 没有人过来讨论吗.....................

看不懂鸟语,求人话


浪不静 于 2018-4-18 13:27:41 发表了:

缩口,改成 9.5MM 的,弹头加长一些,重量不变。威力足够了。


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 13:43:54 发表了:

浪不静 发表于 2018-4-18 13:27

缩口,改成 9.5MM 的,弹头加长一些,重量不变。威力足够了。

这是拿来改造现有的 13MM 米涅枪的,不然新造的话十或者十一毫米会优越一些。不过我觉得到时候直接发展无烟火药弹就好了


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 13:44:30 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-4-18 13:18

看不懂鸟语,求人话

最近期末,实在没空翻译这么多东西...................等过两周放假吧


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 13:47:26 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-4-18 13:17

去掉凸缘生产难度大幅增加,何必呢?

反正用弹链的自动武器(机枪)基本上不在乎有没有凸缘。 ...

这个弹不考虑自动武器啥的,只是用来升级髡贼的 13MM 米涅步枪,顶多还可以用于加特林机枪还有凸缘不影响弹链,俄罗斯那么多打 7.62×54R 的机枪现在还用呢。凸缘的问题主要出在应用于弹匣上。


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 13:48:05 发表了:

兰度 发表于 2018-4-18 13:17

目前能造直筒凸缘弹壳就不错了。

怎么样,爵爷,就用这个吧?


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 13:49:31 发表了:

k.xerxes 发表于 2018-4-18 13:15

蛋壳可以考虑改一下? 去掉凸缘, 会更适合自动武器。

别的不说,黑火药自动武器打一阵子那个烟雾弥漫的还能看得见目标么...........反正硝化棉都造出来了,无烟火药也不远啦


浪不静 于 2018-4-18 13:58:45 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-18 13:43

这是拿来改造现有的 13MM 米涅枪的,不然新造的话十或者十一毫米会优越一些。不过我觉得到时候直接发展无烟 ...

我认为只要上定装弹即可,无烟火药的迫切性不高啊。


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 14:07:33 发表了:

本帖最后由 ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-24 04:23 编辑

根据它给出的表格每十万发消耗的铜皮是一吨多(1193 公斤),而且其中有五分之一会成为冲压后留下的边角料回炉(大约 238 公斤),实际消耗不到一吨的黄铜(954 公斤)。


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 14:08:24 发表了:

浪不静 发表于 2018-4-18 13:58

我认为只要上定装弹即可,无烟火药的迫切性不高啊。

我非常想造 PKM,嗯


兰度 于 2018-4-18 15:10:40 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-18 13:48

怎么样,爵爷,就用这个吧?

如果你说弹药的话,我坚持.50-90


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 15:22:23 发表了:

兰度 发表于 2018-4-18 15:10

如果你说弹药的话,我坚持.50-90

为啥啊.......我甚至觉得可以通过使用压缩黑火药进一步缩短弹壳,尽可能省一点铜呢。。。。。。。。。


深潜者 于 2018-4-18 18:59:46 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-18 13:44

最近期末,实在没空翻译这么多东西...................等过两周放假吧

提炼一点关键部分就好


深潜者 于 2018-4-18 19:00:56 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-18 13:49

别的不说,黑火药自动武器打一阵子那个烟雾弥漫的还能看得见目标么...........反正硝化棉都造出来了,无 ...

从 19 世纪下半叶加特林、加斯特等等早期机枪的装备来看,应该还是看得清的吧?否则它们要之何用


深潜者 于 2018-4-18 19:05:21 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-18 14:07

根据它给出的表格每十万发消耗的铜皮是一吨多(1193 公斤),而且其中有五分之一最后会作为边角料回炉(大约 ...

话说黑火药的装填密度大约有多少?这个子弹是用 9.54g 弹壳装 4.54g 黑火药?这个充装效率比无烟火药强多了,后者好像得用四倍重的弹壳来装无烟火药。


周围 于 2018-4-18 19:14:46 发表了:

这个生产线怎么解决,流程是啥样的

发射药怎么解决


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 20:13:09 发表了:

周围 发表于 2018-4-18 19:14

这个生产线怎么解决,流程是啥样的

发射药怎么解决

上面有写,很详细

发射药就是黑火药


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 20:13:47 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-4-18 19:05

话说黑火药的装填密度大约有多少?这个子弹是用 9.54g 弹壳装 4.54g 黑火药?这个充装效率比无烟火药强多了, ...

那是啊,无烟火药爆炸也剧烈啊


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 20:15:10 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-4-18 19:00

从 19 世纪下半叶加特林、加斯特等等早期机枪的装备来看,应该还是看得清的吧?否则它们要之何用

...

可是那个可能一个连能有一挺了不得了.......射速也比较慢


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 20:16:33 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-4-18 18:59

提炼一点关键部分就好

原本这个文件更长............我只把最重要的部分发上来了..............


周围 于 2018-4-18 20:51:42 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-18 20:13

上面有写,很详细

发射药就是黑火药

那铜壳的话,咱们原料问题不大的,漏气也能接受,核心是子弹壳子你有把握做到把生产线怎么做写出来嘛?因为手摇加特林制造问题不大,核心是弹药。你解决生产线,手摇加特林哪怕是手工打造个几百挺,那个时空其他政权的骑兵和人海战术就失效了。


深潜者 于 2018-4-18 21:35:40 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-18 20:13 那是啊,无烟火药爆炸也剧烈啊

之前军工口不是鼓吹黑火药燃速更高瞬间膛压更大开着吗?


Scat 于 2018-4-18 22:05:24 发表了:

等无烟药搞定了一步到位上 m43 弹就完了,其它都是白费劲


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 23:20:02 发表了:

Scat 发表于 2018-4-18 22:05

等无烟药搞定了一步到位上 m43 弹就完了,其它都是白费劲

我不看好中间威力弹,要搞就搞小口径高初速弹

问题是那些米涅总不好浪费了,拿来改造一下做个过渡时期的武器


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-18 23:21:42 发表了:

本帖最后由 ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-24 04:48 编辑

周围 发表于 2018-4-18 20:51

那铜壳的话,咱们原料问题不大的,漏气也能接受,核心是子弹壳子你有把握做到把生产线怎么做写出来嘛?因 ...

用了铜壳弹就没有漏气问题了。生产线上面写的很清楚了,还有所需的机器的清单,怎么做我不太懂,再查一些资料也行,不过也就是些冲压,切削而已


Scat 于 2018-4-19 07:25:38 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-18 23:20

我不看好中间威力弹,要搞就搞小口径高初速弹

问题是那些米涅总不好浪费了,拿来改造一下做个过渡时期的 ...

有什么浪费的,正规军用完了给国民军用,国民军用完了给警察用,警察用完了拍卖给老百姓,最后还能当古董。

小口径的发射药要求高多了,当然如果是先做手垃圾步枪的话上北约弹也可以


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-19 08:34:54 发表了:

Scat 发表于 2018-4-19 07:25

有什么浪费的,正规军用完了给国民军用,国民军用完了给警察用,警察用完了拍卖给老百姓,最后还能当古董 ...

我本来就打算让伏波军用几年退给国民军和民兵,警察用这个太寒碜了。但是前装枪实在不堪用,不改造不行的,而且改造的代价小成效好,何乐而不为呢?

小口径步枪的发射药哪有什么不同…………1894 年欧洲就出现过 5.2mm 步枪弹,6 到 7 毫末的步枪弹在十九世纪末二十世纪初盛行一时,南美,日本,意大利都用的是 6.5 或 7 毫米弹。美国海军 1895 年就采用过 6 毫米 lee navy 步枪弹。1935 年就出现了 5.56 毫米口径的温彻斯特.220 Swift 弹,除了装药量大不少其实已经比较接近北约的 556 弹了。

说到底这还是由于突击步枪还没有出现小口径弹才没有在那时成为主流,但是很多国家已经意识到小口径弹初速高,弹道平直,后坐力柔和的优势了。


浪不静 于 2018-4-19 15:25:31 发表了:

我看啊,把黑火药定装弹玩好,玩顺溜了,用个 100 年打遍全球不成问题。


wangyongsk 于 2018-4-19 16:56:43 发表了:

浪不静 发表于 2018-4-19 15:25

我看啊,把黑火药定装弹玩好,玩顺溜了,用个 100 年打遍全球不成问题。 ...

元老院为了保证特侦队的弹药供应和元老手里 SKS 的弹药,也得开发无烟火药定装弹吧?从这个角度考虑,似乎就指明了路线了吧?伏波军就兼用这条生产线就行了吧,不用再另树一条线。。。。。。


Scat 于 2018-4-19 17:32:57 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-19 08:34

我本来就打算让伏波军用几年退给国民军和民兵,警察用这个太寒碜了。但是前装枪实在不堪用,不改造不行的 ...

转给治安军的时候已经差不多快成滑膛枪了。

小口径不打不打连发就没啥意思了,再说 223 也不是最优口径


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-19 23:02:58 发表了:

Scat 发表于 2018-4-19 17:32

转给治安军的时候已经差不多快成滑膛枪了。

小口径不打不打连发就没啥意思了,再说 223 也不是最优口径

现在伏波军的米涅很多也不过用了两年,到时候在用个两三年就可以退下来了,也没有用特别久啊


Scat 于 2018-4-19 23:15:53 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-19 23:02

现在伏波军的米涅很多也不过用了两年,到时候在用个两三年就可以退下来了,也没有用特别久啊 ...

打的多


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-20 02:09:58 发表了:

Scat 发表于 2018-4-19 23:15

打的多

二战的步枪打的更多,还特么是高速弹,磨损岂不是更严重,现在照样当剩余物资卖到民间打着玩啊。前装枪射速低,铅弹也软,不会很严重的


Scat 于 2018-4-20 07:31:48 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-20 02:09

二战的步枪打的更多,还特么是高速弹,磨损岂不是更严重,现在照样当剩余物资卖到民间打着玩啊。前装枪射 ...

二战生产的更多


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-21 02:55:31 发表了:

Scat 发表于 2018-4-20 07:31

二战生产的更多

要是膛线真的磨平了大不了扩膛改为霰弹枪得了


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-21 03:07:56 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-4-18 21:35

之前军工口不是鼓吹黑火药燃速更高瞬间膛压更大开着吗?

你要知道从一百年前无烟火药出现到今天双基非腐蚀性发射药的应用,无烟火药的爆炸威力是不断增加的,因此弹壳里装的火药也越来越少


Scat 于 2018-4-21 20:57:31 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-21 02:55

要是膛线真的磨平了大不了扩膛改为霰弹枪得了

膛线磨没了正好当南洋步枪


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-22 02:48:56 发表了:

Scat 发表于 2018-4-21 20:57

膛线磨没了正好当南洋步枪

.......................


tsuyui 于 2018-4-22 23:04:37 发表了:

话说那个时候的杠杆式步枪也用这种子弹吗?髡贼下一步到底是复刻栓动步枪还是杠杆式


浪不静 于 2018-4-22 23:25:27 发表了:

tsuyui 发表于 2018-4-22 23:04

话说那个时候的杠杆式步枪也用这种子弹吗?髡贼下一步到底是复刻栓动步枪还是杠杆式 ...

陆军应该搞 2 种子弹,三种枪。一种是 10*60 的步枪子弹,用于栓动步枪,一种是.44russian,用于左轮手枪和有弹管的杠杆步枪或者泵动式步枪。


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-23 01:35:07 发表了:

tsuyui 发表于 2018-4-22 23:04

话说那个时候的杠杆式步枪也用这种子弹吗?髡贼下一步到底是复刻栓动步枪还是杠杆式 ...

温彻斯特 1876 或 1895 这些后期设计的机构强度更高的用来打大型猎物或军用的杠杆步枪可以,甚至有的可以打比这个弹威力更大的弹,专门打鹿和野牛的。但是杠杆式步枪我认为没有价值发展,过于复杂过于昂贵了,不如赶紧发展栓动步枪和自由枪机冲锋枪


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-23 01:36:31 发表了:

浪不静 发表于 2018-4-22 23:25

陆军应该搞 2 种子弹,三种枪。一种是 10*60 的步枪子弹,用于栓动步枪,一种是.44russian,用于左轮手枪和有 ...

如果继续发展黑火药枪弹这么干没问题,但是髡贼下一步还是要搞无烟火药弹


深潜者 于 2018-4-23 05:23:13 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-23 01:35 温彻斯特 1876 或 1895 这些后期设计的机构强度更高的用来打大型猎物或军用的杠杆步枪可以,甚至有的可以打比 ...

自由枪机看起来简单,但对子弹要求高哈,因为它抽壳太早,容易拉断,现在都要靠刻槽弹膛或者装前涂油来解决


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-23 11:33:05 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-4-23 05:23

自由枪机看起来简单,但对子弹要求高哈,因为它抽壳太早,容易拉断,现在都要靠刻槽弹膛或者装前涂油来解 ...

没那回事的,刻槽那是 delayed blowback 用的,而且是步枪,不是一回事,涂油更是少有听说,基本上哈乞开斯系列的重机枪会有自动润滑功能,不过那些也不是自由枪机啊。自由枪机(这里特制 simple blowback)的冲锋枪可多了去了,比如一战时期的 MP18,二战的斯登,M3 黄油枪,MP40,PPsh-41,PPs-43,战后的乌兹,瓦尔特 MPL,MAC10/11,斯特灵,中国的 80 式等等这些全都是自由枪机的。

自由式枪机的原理是利用一个质量很大的枪机和弹簧的弹力来延缓抽壳,自由枪机冲锋枪的机头都是很大很重的一块铁。而且手枪弹本来膛压就低,像一些小威力的手枪如瓦尔特 ppk,FN 勃朗宁 1903,中国的 64 式也可以采用自由枪机。


浪不静 于 2018-4-23 14:43:41 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-4-23 05:23

自由枪机看起来简单,但对子弹要求高哈,因为它抽壳太早,容易拉断,现在都要靠刻槽弹膛或者装前涂油来解 ...

用刻槽弹膛好,弹壳能防止用来复装。


愚哉子安 于 2018-4-23 16:42:09 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-18 14:07

根据它给出的表格每十万发消耗的铜皮是一吨多(1193 公斤),而且其中有五分之一最后会作为边角料回炉(大约 ...

只能回炉 1/5??损耗这么大??


愚哉子安 于 2018-4-23 16:42:39 发表了:

浪不静 发表于 2018-4-23 14:43

用刻槽弹膛好,弹壳能防止用来复装。

没底火咋复装??


abc950309 于 2018-4-23 17:38:37 发表了:

愚哉子安 发表于 2018-4-23 16:42

只能回炉 1/5??损耗这么大??

这个指的是冲压下来的边角料,不是蛋壳。蛋壳拿去用了,怎么可能回炉。


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-24 00:32:47 发表了:

愚哉子安 发表于 2018-4-23 16:42

只能回炉 1/5??损耗这么大??

回炉 1/5 是指用来冲压弹壳的铜皮在冲压完了之后会剩下占原重量 1/5 的边角料,这部分直接回炉


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-24 00:34:19 发表了:

本帖最后由 ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-24 00:35 编辑

浪不静 发表于 2018-4-23 14:43

用刻槽弹膛好,弹壳能防止用来复装。

又不是 delayed blowback 的自动步枪,冲锋枪而已,用不着刻槽的


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-24 00:37:15 发表了:

abc950309 发表于 2018-4-23 17:38

这个指的是冲压下来的边角料,不是蛋壳。蛋壳拿去用了,怎么可能回炉。

...

弹壳可以收集起来复装几次,最后回炉


abc950309 于 2018-4-24 10:43:12 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-24 00:37

弹壳可以收集起来复装几次,最后回炉

这个讲的是生产阶段的回炉,用过之后的就算是“回收”了……之前这个讲法的上下文是,前面的同学以为 1/5 指的是蛋壳全寿命的回炉情况,很明显 1/5 是生产阶段的回炉情况。


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-24 11:23:05 发表了:

abc950309 发表于 2018-4-24 10:43

这个讲的是生产阶段的回炉,用过之后的就算是“回收”了……之前这个讲法的上下文是,前面的同学以为 1/5 ...

嗯嗯


周围 于 2018-4-24 17:46:04 发表了:

准了,造手摇加特林吧


某食肉动物 2 于 2018-4-26 10:16:35 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-24 11:23

嗯嗯

嘿嘿,拿去搞 13 毫米航空机枪,嘻嘻


某食肉动物 2 于 2018-4-26 10:17:17 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-24 11:23

嗯嗯

ShKAs 都能有那么高的射速==

这个看上去也还行


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-26 10:38:13 发表了:

某食肉动物 2 发表于 2018-4-26 10:16

嘿嘿,拿去搞 13 毫米航空机枪,嘻嘻

就这玩意儿?甭想了,这可是裸铅黑火药底缘弹


某食肉动物 2 于 2018-4-26 10:43:35 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-4-26 10:38

就这玩意儿?甭想了,这可是裸铅黑火药底缘弹

哦,好吧,枪管挂铅==


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-4-26 13:37:12 发表了:

某食肉动物 2 发表于 2018-4-26 10:43

哦,好吧,枪管挂铅==

不光这个,别看口径差不多甚至一样,这俩完全就不是一路东西


深潜者 于 2018-5-1 17:56:56 发表了:

话说这种金属弹壳子弹的生产成本或者售价大约要多少美分/发?貌似亨利边发弹大约是 1 美分/发来着


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-1 22:15:59 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-1 17:56

话说这种金属弹壳子弹的生产成本或者售价大约要多少美分/发?貌似亨利边发弹大约是 1 美分/发来着 ...

不知道,生产越多越便宜呗


深潜者 于 2018-5-1 22:18:24 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-5-1 22:15

不知道,生产越多越便宜呗

问的是当时这个子弹多少钱?9L 不是贴了个成本分析吗?就是看不明白问一下

希望能大致对比一下:米尼弹、纸包后装弹、金属壳弹的价格


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-1 22:43:03 发表了:

本帖最后由 ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-1 22:50 编辑

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-1 22:18

问的是当时这个子弹多少钱?9L 不是贴了个成本分析吗?就是看不明白问一下

希望能大致对比一下:米尼弹、 ...

多少钱跟材料关系不是很大,或者说材料只是价格的一部分,主要是规模经济,投入一定的固定成本用来建厂房,造设备,然后生产的越多成本就摊的越薄。那个表格你们看不懂我过两天有空翻译一下?当然肯定比米涅和后装纸壳弹贵咯

亨利边缘发火弹要小不少,毕竟它基本就是个手枪弹。不过相对于军队标准的步枪弹它的产量大概没那么多(猜的,用的似乎还是蛮广泛的)。再就是当年美元币值跟现在可是差了十万八千里,就算知道又有多少价值呢?


深潜者 于 2018-5-1 22:54:25 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-5-1 22:43 多少钱跟材料关系不是很大,或者说材料只是价格的一部分,主要是规模经济,投入一定的固定成本用来建厂房 ...

19 世纪中叶到下半叶还是金本位时代,币值在这几十年里变化不大。因此是可以大致上直接比较米尼弹、纸包弹、铜壳弹的价格的


深河 于 2018-5-2 19:02:47 发表了:

某食肉动物 2 发表于 2018-4-26 10:43 哦,好吧,枪管挂铅==

裸铅弹导致的枪管挂铅可以通过改变弹头设计来缓解,简单来说就是弹头嵌入弹壳的部位开两圈横槽,靠近弹头的一圈里面灌蜂蜡,后面那圈是混凝纸弹带。可以一定程度缓解枪管挂铅和黑火药发射药残渣太多的问题。

但这个设计不太适用于高射速武器。


兰度 于 2018-5-2 19:15:55 发表了:

深河 发表于 2018-5-2 19:02

裸铅弹导致的枪管挂铅可以通过改变弹头设计来缓解,简单来说就是弹头嵌入弹壳的部位开两圈横槽,靠近弹头 ...

那么设计的机枪必须用被甲弹么?


浪不静 于 2018-5-2 19:17:24 发表了:

深河 发表于 2018-5-2 19:02

裸铅弹导致的枪管挂铅可以通过改变弹头设计来缓解,简单来说就是弹头嵌入弹壳的部位开两圈横槽,靠近弹头 ...

那种弹管式黑火药毛瑟可以吗?


浪不静 于 2018-5-2 19:18:19 发表了:

兰度 发表于 2018-5-2 19:15

那么设计的机枪必须用被甲弹么?

我怎么记得初速低于 500 的不存在挂铅问题?


深潜者 于 2018-5-2 19:39:04 发表了:

深河 发表于 2018-5-2 19:02

裸铅弹导致的枪管挂铅可以通过改变弹头设计来缓解,简单来说就是弹头嵌入弹壳的部位开两圈横槽,靠近弹头 ...

话说这算是 19 世纪下半叶裸铅弹的标配了。但现在的.22LR 子弹也多半是用裸铅弹的,但为什么看起来没有这么做呢?


深潜者 于 2018-5-2 19:40:29 发表了:

浪不静 发表于 2018-5-2 19:18

我怎么记得初速低于 500 的不存在挂铅问题?

初速才三百左右的米尼弹都需要用槽内蜡来解决挂铅问题


深潜者 于 2018-5-2 19:48:19 发表了:

兰度 发表于 2018-5-2 19:15

那么设计的机枪必须用被甲弹么?

如果从.22LR 冲锋枪的例子看,或许不是必须用被甲弹的?

另外 19 世纪下半叶的加特林、加斯特等机枪用的应该都是裸铅弹吧?


vf211 于 2018-5-2 20:10:01 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-4-18 13:17

去掉凸缘生产难度大幅增加,何必呢?

反正用弹链的自动武器(机枪)基本上不在乎有没有凸缘。 ...

左轮也不在乎,这种大口径的左轮可以配枪托了,再配上速装卡托,步兵、骑兵都是利器啊。


深潜者 于 2018-5-2 20:16:35 发表了:

vf211 发表于 2018-5-2 20:10

左轮也不在乎,这种大口径的左轮可以配枪托了,再配上速装卡托,步兵、骑兵都是利器啊。

...

左轮的问题是既然有铜壳弹了,那么骑枪就用杠杆枪呗,再带个单手战的左轮手机。

没必要用一个很重的大威力左轮来兼顾手枪和骑枪吧?


vf211 于 2018-5-2 20:20:07 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-2 20:16

左轮的问题是既然有铜壳弹了,那么骑枪就用杠杆枪呗,再带个单手战的左轮手机。

没必要用一个很重的大威 ...

左轮的好处就是哑火快速转膛下一发,大口径大后座大重量,手持不如抵肩稳定,杠杆一是有些复杂,二是土著用这么犀利的连发火器,有些造反太容易的感觉。


深潜者 于 2018-5-2 20:22:35 发表了:

vf211 发表于 2018-5-2 20:20

左轮的好处就是哑火快速转膛下一发,大口径大后座大重量,手持不如抵肩稳定,杠杆一是有些复杂,二是土著 ...

所有手动枪都是瞎火快速转下一发呀!因为推弹上弹操作不用考虑子弹是否击发。


vf211 于 2018-5-2 20:27:45 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-2 20:22

所有手动枪都是瞎火快速转下一发呀!因为推弹上弹操作不用考虑子弹是否击发。

...

这倒是。我的考虑是,这是给土著用的武器,必须对朝庭的武器形成代差,但又不能对元老造成威胁,那么 5 发的(口径太大,6 发有些臃肿了)左轮式样正好合适,既有一定的射速形成压制力,又不够压制有更高压制力的元老的武器。就活门步枪这种武器来说,单打一还是有些火力弱了。5 发连射再配上速装弹托,妥妥的大杀器,但又够不着 SKS 的火力,刚好用。


深潜者 于 2018-5-2 20:32:19 发表了:

vf211 发表于 2018-5-2 20:27

这倒是。我的考虑是,这是给土著用的武器,必须对朝庭的武器形成代差,但又不能对元老造成威胁,那么 5 发 ...

马逆前卒贻害不浅(话说代差策略是马逆提出的吧?)

仔细想想就知道不靠谱呀,SKS 其实早就没法再用了,因为临高之前搞不定无烟火药和被甲弹,用黑火药裸铅弹玩复装纯属胡扯。

也既除了穿越前的那点子弹外,元老就只能依靠后来生产的武器了。


深河 于 2018-5-2 21:10:11 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-2 19:39

话说这算是 19 世纪下半叶裸铅弹的标配了。但现在的.22LR 子弹也多半是用裸铅弹的,但为什么看起来没有这么 ...

……现代.22lr 弹一般不是纯铅。


深河 于 2018-5-2 21:11:27 发表了:

兰度 发表于 2018-5-2 19:15

那么设计的机枪必须用被甲弹么?

最好是有被甲的。不过据说铅锑合金也能减轻挂铅问题,我不太确定……


深潜者 于 2018-5-2 21:15:19 发表了:

深河 发表于 2018-5-2 21:10

……现代.22lr 弹一般不是纯铅。

看了下 19 世纪子弹头的剖面图,好像就米尼弹多采用横槽塞蜡设计,而后装枪子弹貌似基本不用。

这是因为米尼弹为了保证扩张能力,不能用较硬的铅合金,从而挂铅问题较严重。而后装枪弹直接用较硬的铅锡、铅锑合金啥的就没这么麻烦了?


深河 于 2018-5-2 21:16:59 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-2 21:15

看了下 19 世纪子弹头的剖面图,好像就米尼弹多采用横槽塞蜡设计,而后装枪子弹貌似基本不用。

这是因为米 ...

应该就是这回事儿。


兰度 于 2018-5-3 09:18:04 发表了:

深河 发表于 2018-5-2 21:11

最好是有被甲的。不过据说铅锑合金也能减轻挂铅问题,我不太确定……

那就是提高弹头硬度的问题了。


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-3 11:24:48 发表了:

本帖最后由 ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-3 11:47 编辑

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-2 21:15

看了下 19 世纪子弹头的剖面图,好像就米尼弹多采用横槽塞蜡设计,而后装枪子弹貌似基本不用。

这是因为米 ...

用的,比如英国的斯奈德步枪发射的子弹,美国春田活门的子弹,一个是可以固定润滑剂,再一个减少子弹与枪管内壁的接触面积。总之就是减少挂铅用的


深潜者 于 2018-5-3 12:15:41 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-5-3 11:24

用的,比如英国的斯奈德步枪发射的子弹,美国春田活门的子弹,一个是可以固定润滑剂,再一个减少子弹与枪 ...

士乃德好像是沿用了米妮弹头吧?

你看后续的玛蒂妮-亨莉用的弹头好像就没有槽呀。


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-3 12:32:31 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-3 12:15

士乃德好像是沿用了米妮弹头吧?

你看后续的玛蒂妮-亨莉用的弹头好像就没有槽呀。

...

马蒂尼亨利的子弹弹丸外面包了层涂了润滑剂的纸,作用是一样的


深潜者 于 2018-5-3 12:41:57 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-5-3 12:32

马蒂尼亨利的子弹弹丸外面包了层涂了润滑剂的纸,作用是一样的

这个是卷壳版的吗?原来还卷了好几层。

反正黑火药裸铅弹是能适应机枪的就是了。


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-3 13:13:50 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-3 12:41

这个是卷壳版的吗?原来还卷了好几层。

反正黑火药裸铅弹是能适应机枪的就是了。

...

并不建议


深潜者 于 2018-5-3 13:16:52 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-5-3 13:13

并不建议

用裸铅弹子弹的自动枪支相当多呀,为什么不建议?


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-3 14:33:40 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-3 13:16

用裸铅弹子弹的自动枪支相当多呀,为什么不建议?

你说的是那些.22 么...............


深潜者 于 2018-5-3 18:54:24 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-5-3 14:33

你说的是那些.22 么...............

这只是现代的,19 世纪下半叶的那些加特林、加斯特等等机枪不都是用的黑火药裸铅弹?甚至早期马克沁也是如此呀!


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-3 19:10:41 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-3 18:54

这只是现代的,19 世纪下半叶的那些加特林、加斯特等等机枪不都是用的黑火药裸铅弹?甚至早期马克沁也是如 ...

加特林这种多管外能源的严格来说不算自动武器,加斯特?现在用在 23mm 机炮上的那个原理?马克沁就原型枪打过裸铅弹,人家还有水冷套筒


深潜者 于 2018-5-3 19:13:54 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-5-3 19:10

加特林这种多管外能源的严格来说不算自动武器,加斯特?现在用在 23mm 机炮上的那个原理?马克沁就原型枪打 ...

自动不是说的扣扳机能打几发吗?不牵扯动力来源吧?

既然裸铅弹能在连发武器上使用,那么就应该也能在内能源自动武器上使用,毕竟对于枪管挂铅与什么动力无关。


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-4 04:32:42 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-3 19:13

自动不是说的扣扳机能打几发吗?不牵扯动力来源吧?

既然裸铅弹能在连发武器上使用,那么就应该也能在内 ...

跟能源有关啊,不然带自动装弹机的坦克炮和舰炮也算自动武器咯?

不一样,加特林有六个枪管,挂铅会平均的被六个枪管摊平。


深潜者 于 2018-5-4 06:00:39 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-5-4 04:32 跟能源有关啊,不然带自动装弹机的坦克炮和舰炮也算自动武器咯?

不一样,加特林有六个枪管,挂铅会平均 ...

坦克炮扣一次扳机能打 N 发?


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-4 06:28:27 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-4 06:00

坦克炮扣一次扳机能打 N 发?

舰炮可以嘛,而且半自动不就是扣一下一发嘛,自动武器的定义是利用火药的能源完成自动循环的武器。苏联有火药燃气动力的加特林炮,越打越快,而且没有电池和电机的重量,整体更加紧凑,但是机械结构比较复杂


深潜者 于 2018-5-4 06:36:10 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-5-4 06:28 舰炮可以嘛,而且半自动不就是扣一下一发嘛,自动武器的定义是利用火药的能源完成自动循环的武器。苏联有 ...

话说亨莉还是斯宾塞连珠枪有一两天内发射两千发不清膛的测试,里面的说法似乎是枪管里全是铅粉。


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-4 06:38:23 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-4 06:36

话说亨莉还是斯宾塞连珠枪有一两天内发射两千发不清膛的测试,里面的说法似乎是枪管里全是铅粉。 ...

那枪也是够结实的。

现代步枪都会有挂铜的问题,更何况是铅。裸铅弹没有未来的,准备过渡到被甲弹吧


深潜者 于 2018-5-4 06:42:52 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-5-4 06:38 那枪也是够结实的。

现代步枪都会有挂铜的问题,更何况是铅。裸铅弹没有未来的,准备过渡到被甲弹吧

在开发高初速无烟火药弹之前,给低初速黑火药弹上被甲反而会严重影响性能吧?


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-4 06:52:13 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-4 06:42

在开发高初速无烟火药弹之前,给低初速黑火药弹上被甲反而会严重影响性能吧? ...

临高现在已经有硝化棉了,早期的无烟火药也没那么麻烦,先用着硝化棉发射药就是了。黑火药的主要问题是不好搞出更小的口径,否者残渣的累计和腐蚀会严重到无法接受的程度。奥匈帝国和英国都搞过八毫米以下的高速弹(基本就是现代步枪弹了),发射药用的是压缩黑火药也可以获得比较可观的初速。但是由于残渣的问题一直不甚成功,很快就被无烟火药替代了。


深潜者 于 2018-5-4 07:03:16 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-5-4 06:52 临高现在已经有硝化棉了,早期的无烟火药也没那么麻烦,先用着硝化棉发射药就是了。黑火药的主要问题是不 ...

“小”口径黑火药被甲弹最大的问题不是打不死人吗?


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-5 07:13:26 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-4 07:03

“小”口径黑火药被甲弹最大的问题不是打不死人吗?

奥匈帝国的 8×52mmR Mannlicher 和早期的英 77 就是这一类子弹,基本就是现代步枪弹了,是被甲弹


深潜者 于 2018-5-5 09:21:49 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-5-5 07:13 奥匈帝国的 8×52mmR Mannlicher 和早期的英 77 就是这一类子弹,基本就是现代步枪弹了,是被甲弹

...

然后他们发现第一代子弹威力弱得惊人,然后才有了空尖弹嘛。


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-6 07:22:26 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-5 09:21

然后他们发现第一代子弹威力弱得惊人,然后才有了空尖弹嘛。

也不是,英 77 弹早期的问题是在于其设计,跟发射药关系不大。后来英国人通过改变子弹重心加强翻滚提高了杀伤力。


深潜者 于 2018-5-6 07:25:56 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-5-6 07:22 也不是,英 77 弹早期的问题是在于其设计,跟发射药关系不大。后来英国人通过改变子弹重心加强翻滚提高了杀 ...

谁教它们飞得快了但还不够快。

第二代子弹靠的是空尖设计提高杀伤力的,此时还是 14g 重弹,600m/s 的初速。

等到第三代才是你说的设计,靠进一步降低弹重,把初速提到能翻滚的程度了。

但如果用压缩黑火药的话,第三代方案是用不了的,因为弹头再怎么轻,初速也上不到那么高呀


深河 于 2018-5-6 12:12:45 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-6 07:25

谁教它们飞得快了但还不够快。

第二代子弹靠的是空尖设计提高杀伤力的,此时还是 14g 重弹,600m/s 的初速。 ...

英 77MK.I.C 和 MK.II 的问题是,用了愚蠢的全被甲圆头蛋设计。


深潜者 于 2018-5-6 12:19:09 发表了:

深河 发表于 2018-5-6 12:12 英 77MK.I.C 和 MK.II 的问题是,用了愚蠢的全被甲圆头蛋设计。

对于无烟火药的版本,如果用十克快弹的话,就算全被甲也行吧。既然都用无烟火药了,干嘛还玩低速重弹呢?

而还在用黑火药的话,真有必要搞小口径吗?


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-7 17:34:56 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-6 07:25

谁教它们飞得快了但还不够快。

第二代子弹靠的是空尖设计提高杀伤力的,此时还是 14g 重弹,600m/s 的初速。 ...

英 77 早期的问题就算是到了无烟火药时代依然没能解决


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-7 17:38:53 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-6 12:19

对于无烟火药的版本,如果用十克快弹的话,就算全被甲也行吧。既然都用无烟火药了,干嘛还玩低速重弹呢? ...

跟什么火药关系不大,黑火药威力低就提高药室容积或改用压缩黑火药就是咯


深潜者 于 2018-5-7 18:50:55 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-5-7 17:34

英 77 早期的问题就算是到了无烟火药时代依然没能解决

第二代无烟火药弹换上空尖设计之后就解决了呀!


深潜者 于 2018-5-7 18:52:48 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-5-7 17:38

跟什么火药关系不大,黑火药威力低就提高药室容积或改用压缩黑火药就是咯 ...

这又不是黑火药导致的威力低好不!是因为采用了全被甲子弹而初速又没提很高,导致命中目标后缺乏变形难以释放能量。

同样动能下,如果用低速裸铅重弹杀伤力超大的。


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-7 19:48:29 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-7 18:50

第二代无烟火药弹换上空尖设计之后就解决了呀!

空尖?那只是印度军工厂立足现有条件的亡羊补牢罢了,真正解决是靠移动弹头重心和改为尖头弹


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-7 19:50:04 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-7 18:52

这又不是黑火药导致的威力低好不!是因为采用了全被甲子弹而初速又没提很高,导致命中目标后缺乏变形难以 ...

初速没有很提高?提高了很多有没有???再说全被甲弹的杀伤主要还是靠翻滚而不是边形来释放能量,虽然部分命中后铅芯也会被甩离被甲


深潜者 于 2018-5-7 20:08:45 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-5-7 19:48

空尖?那只是印度军工厂立足现有条件的亡羊补牢罢了,真正解决是靠移动弹头重心和改为尖头弹

...

你说的那个都是 1910 年才出现的 MK7 了好不!在当时,创伤弹道学还是一门无人涉足的科学,没人知道 600m/s 的初速对于这种重量较轻的小口径弹来说是不够的,这样低的速度只适合比较重的软铅弹,例如.450 口径马蒂尼-亨利步枪(Martini-Henry)发射的 480**格令软铅弹。而且全被甲的 Mk.II 弹侵彻力强,可以穿透大象的头骨,但对于人体目标来说它的侵彻力是好过头了,弹头能量不能有效传递给肌体,产生的瞬时空腔太小,英国的研究人员通过对不同人种的尸体解剖发现 Mk.II 弹的创伤弹道非常整齐。英国在 1897 年研制出杀伤效果和精度都更好的 Mk.III**弹,其实就是在弹头前端开一段空腔而改成空尖弹。在经过进一步改进成 Mk.IV 弹后,这种空尖弹在当年就开始投产,接着在**1899 年又研制出 Mk.V**弹,同样是空尖弹,但弹芯含 2%的锑以增加其硬度。英军研究人员有感于早年 Mk.II 弹的失败,他们对重量较轻的弹头也不太放心,觉得需要稍为增大一点点重量,于是就研制出弹头重 174 格令(11.3g)的 Mk.7 尖头弹,并在 1910 年正式采用。三种.303 的弹头结构


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-7 21:07:49 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-7 20:08

你说的那个都是 1910 年才出现的 MK7 了好不!

在当时,创伤弹道学还是一门无人涉足的科学,没人知道 600m/s ...

对啊,在那之前都没有解决,而且直到最后英 77 的威力都不大足


深潜者 于 2018-5-7 21:22:53 发表了:

ぱるる大好き! 发表于 2018-5-7 21:07

对啊,在那之前都没有解决,而且直到最后英 77 的威力都不大足

1910 版不是为了杀伤力,而是为了高初速的弹道效果


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-8 08:22:43 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-5-7 21:22

1910 版不是为了杀伤力,而是为了高初速的弹道效果

本意不是,但是重心在后提高了翻滚的概率


周围 于 2018-5-8 08:56:23 发表了:

手摇加特林挺实用的啊!不用披甲也是可以的。


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-13 13:39:21 发表了:

我开始翻译这篇资料了,大家都来看看,也帮我挑挑错


ぱるる大好き! 于 2018-5-13 14:24:07 发表了:

深潜者 发表于 2018-4-18 13:18

看不懂鸟语,求人话

你要的翻译来啦


某食肉动物 2 于 2018-5-13 16:05:20 发表了:

翻译大好