[临高]西班牙敌情摘录

北朝旧贴 | 钱水廷 | 8/15/2020 | 共 11151 字 | 编辑本页

钱水廷 于 2011-9-30 04:22:44 发表了:

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| 手工搬运原来在 SC 的贴子. 很多东西会随着蝴蝶效应而不准, 但基本事态和一些背景材料应该是有用的.

西班牙敌情摘录(The Philippine Islands, 1493–1898, Volume XXIII, 1629–30)

1630 年 7 月 30 日. (菲律宾总督)Tavora 致(西班牙国王) Felipe IV:

1. 1630 年 3 月, 来自澳门的船特立尼达(三位一体)号带来消息, 因为 1628 年西班牙人在泰国烧了日本人的船, 日本人准备报复, 有四万大军和大量船只要来攻打在台湾的基地和马尼拉沿岸, 我虽然不太信但还是做了准备. 我让(马尼拉的)中国人从他们的社区基金里拿出点钱来为陛下效劳(靠!). 他们出了四千比索和其它的(工和物). 我用这钱建了两只(连?)骑兵, 又加固了甲米地的防御工事. 马尼拉和甲米地一带的防御比以前强多了. 另外, 台湾要塞的防御也进行了紧急加强, 司令 Don Juan de Alcaraso 写信说他不怕数量巨大的日本人. 如果荷兰人像去年一样重返淡水, 倒是会造成更大的麻烦. 有一条从日本溜出的中国船来报信, 说被日本人扣留的荷兰人与葡萄牙人和他们的船都还没动.

2. 去年 11 月我派了刚从新西班牙(美洲殖民地)来的两条船和一条 PATACHE(!!! 小点的船)去增援摩鹿加的 Terrenate 要塞. 我很高兴能用上这些船, 省了我的手头的兵力. 船队遭遇大风,损失了一条船, 但人员和物资都保留下来了. 要塞总督是 Pedro de Heredia. 据报荷兰人在 Ambueno 岛有三十条船, 一半是从土著 MORO 国王那里来的, 其它是从中国沿海, 台湾, 或者马尼拉去的. (似乎是指非西方人的船).

3. (西班牙驻)印度总督带信, 要我们派出三条盖伦为从澳门到印度的船队(成为中国船队)护航, 他将支付有关的费用. 我和监军们(auditor, 国王派出的监察总督的代表)及战争委员会商量了, 如果他们多数人支持派兵, 我尽管不能完全满足要求, 至少能派出两条盖伦船. 一个重要的考虑就是要向敌人显示力量(不能老被欺负?)

4. Nuño Alvarez Botello 的事迹 Nuño Alvarez Botello 很走运, 他在雅加达附近的 Jambi 工厂抢了敌人两条船, 并烧毁两条装备精良的重型船只. 他更解救了马六甲, 屠杀或俘虏了 19000(!)来自 Achen 的 MORO 人. 但这两件大功都因为这个勇敢船长的牺牲而变得暗淡了.5. 这个殖民地的另一类敌人是附近的土著王国. 我派 Don Lorenço Olasso 带领 350 西班牙士兵和 2500 印度士兵去讨伐 JORO, .....结果没打赢. 这批人又去 Mindanao 岛, 当地最强大的国王现在很友好, 希望这会持续几年. (这部分部队还没回来, 所谓印度士兵我不知道真是印度人, 还是"东印度"土著).6. Cagayan 的情况比以前好了, 我们干掉了很多印度人, 一部分人现在臣服于陛下.

马尼拉市政官(Dominican)给国王写信(1629 年 5 月 12 日),报告菲律宾/马尼拉,没有海军,只有很少的陆军分散在各处,士兵大量死于气候不适,食物缺乏和恶劣的生活。荷兰人无处不在。因为贸易的中断,这里消耗着大量的钱财却没有创造财富。如果能有一只小型舰队,则可以用更小的成本创造更大的价值,而士兵的士气也会更高,即使他们战死,也可以说是死得其所,而不是像前面说的那样死的毫无价值。 | |

总督 Juan Niño de Tavora; August 1, 1629. 写给国王的报告一上来就哭穷, 嫌从美洲运来的钱不够. 挣钱也不容易. 他们控制的地盘能保证每年大约四十吨的丁香, 当地值四千比索. 要是给当地人衣服, 用品什么的, 还可以省一半. 这些丁香卖到印度能值三万五千比索. 在菲律宾当地造一条一百五十吨的船要 1 万 5 千比索. 8 门八磅或十二磅的青铜炮要四千比索. 另外 25 个水手加 25 个火枪手, 船长什么的, 一千比索. 总共要两万比索造船才能卖那丁香, 而且还有被荷兰人打劫的可能性. 荷兰人经常从雅加达跑到新加坡一带打劫, 他们也知道澳门印度之间的船防御不足.

又说中国人比印度人(本地土著?)种地好, 要求租地给他们, 并每人贷款 25 比索, 鼓励他们定居. 这样靠地租每年能增收四万比索, 而且增加粮食自给度. 希望国王同意, 并追加五千比索作为启动贷款. (我们也可以考虑用贷款和租地吸引移民, 而不用光买人)

(这个报告还有, 回头再翻)

另一个没有落款的报告写于 1630 年 7 月, 应该不是总督, 记录了前面提到的和 Jolo 岛上的人打仗和阵亡了的船长 Botello 的事迹. 其中提到讨伐 Jolo 的部队有 400 西班牙人和 2500 印度人(菲律宾人). 乘坐船只包括一条 galley, 三条 brigantines, 十二条类似 patache 的小型货船, 以及大约 50 条本地的(大型)划艇, 单侧有 30-40 只浆. (他的运输船不算太好)

这东西翻起来还有点难度, 地名经常和现在英语拼的不一样(Macan, Japon, Yndia, Sian...),   还净用已经过时的计量单位(Bahar, Castilian toneladas).

再简略一点吧: 总督 1629 年的报告里先提到到 7 月 19 日还没大帆船的消息. 希望以后要三月中就发船, 别等到四月, 不然就过不下去了. 他已经准备了两条新船回美洲, 不过运回去的货物也比以前少, 主要是因为荷兰人的骚扰, 从中国来送货的船都不敢来了(荷兰人真那么厉害, 还是他想要挟王室多给钱?)...(因为我们太穷了, 给的钱又不够, 我们打算自己挣), 我们准备, 市政决定批准八个商人带货物到墨西哥去买(货款在回来的船里?)...没钱...没钱...和监督官打架...从印度搞来了硝石(!)...向柬埔寨, 南越派了使节, 跟泰国, 日本交涉去年惩罚他们的事(西班牙人在泰国烧了日本人的船)...卸任总督要回去了, 我允许他带走四十吨的东西(!)...市政琐事...等要发信前大帆船终于来了, 可只运来了不到 25 万比索, 我要至少四十万!   随船另外送来两万四千比索要为美洲那边修要塞采购大炮, 我们来不及造, 就给了他们 18 门现成的(够黑的, 前面说八门炮要四千, 这至少赚一倍啊, 不过那些是八磅或十二磅炮, 这个会大点?).

就到这儿吧. 这些东西给了一些真实的背景资料, 即使不直接用, 对了解当时的情况还是挺有帮助的. 比如王室给的经费虽然不多, 但还有采购专款, 商人到美洲卖货得的钱, 总督搜刮那么多, 也得有人从美洲补充钱吧...所以搞一票五十万比索基本能保证, 多到一百万也是可能的.

历史上大帆船有四次被抢, 一次得了一百万比索的硬币, 两次是价值大约两百万的货, 还有一次干的不利索, 估计得了价值四十到八十万的硬通货, 那船上的总值估计能有两百万. | | |


钱水廷 于 2011-9-30 04:34:59 发表了:

因为准备打劫马尼拉大帆船的资料, 又看了点新东西. 最大的收获是找到了 1630-1635 马尼拉(西属菲律宾殖民地)的详细财政数据(精确到个位!). 船的情况有一点, 但没有船型载重, 人员等具体信息. 另外有不少西班牙在台湾的基地的情况. 现在没时间写了, 待会儿贴出来. 最坏的消息, 1631 年大帆船的官银只有: 203,915 比索. 私银多少大家看着编吧, 30 万比索是基本的, 再多也可以, 不过我也没底了.


恶意讨薪毛润之 于 2011-9-30 09:30:06 发表了:

钱水廷 发表于 2011-9-30 04:34

因为准备打劫马尼拉大帆船的资料, 又看了点新东西. 最大的收获是找到了 1630-1635 马尼拉(西属菲律宾殖民地)的 ...

乐观的看,由于澳洲货的冲击,西班牙从中国的进口进一步增加,可能数字还要大于这个


维护高手陈八尺 于 2011-9-30 10:07:23 发表了:

这样的货,在现代自动火力面前没戏吧


rottenweed 于 2011-9-30 10:40:12 发表了:

看了你这些资料,怎么觉得打完郑家后,准备个一两年把西班牙人和荷兰人全灭很容易啊?

另外,1630 年西班牙在台湾有堡垒?怎么一直印象里面郑家只是和荷兰人争夺台湾。


钱水廷 于 2011-9-30 11:58:10 发表了:

本帖最后由 钱水廷 于 2011-9-30 11:58 编辑 历史情况大致是这样的:尽管西班牙王室曾要求菲律宾方面每年六月就派船返回美洲, 以躲过台风季节, 但可能因为菲律宾这边想把美洲船到的消息以及随船带来的指令有个交待, 经常到拖 8 月才发船. 1630 年 8 月 4 日, 有两条船 San Ignacio and San Jacinto(没查出什么意思, 应该是所谓圣徒吧)离开马尼拉, 遭遇一系列的恶劣天气, 用了近一年才分别在 1631 年 7 月和 8 月回到墨西哥. 两条船都严重损坏, 旗舰被迫砍掉了主桅, 每条船都有超过 140 人死在路上.因为从亚洲回去的船通常在年底到转年年初就该到了, 美洲这边迟迟不见船回来, 认为这两条船已经失事, 便从秘鲁调了两条较小的船.1631 年 4 月 4 日, 这两条船从墨西哥(新西班牙)出发, 一条叫圣佛朗西斯科(San Francisco) 的船先与 7 月 11 日到达菲律宾, 另一条叫圣胡安传道者(San Juan Evangelista) 的船 7 月 28 日(一说 8 月才到). 路上也不顺利, 两条船的舵都坏了. 根据记录, 菲律宾殖民地这一年从美洲共得到 203,915 比索的经费. 当年 8 月, 菲律宾方面同样派出两条船, 一条在当地建造的叫抹大拉(圣经人物)的新船因为超载和质量问题, 在甲米地的港湾里就翻沉了, 货物全部损失, 还死了不少乘客(有个报告说是 14 人). 另一条船叫 Santa Margarita, 出去后又折返回港了(所以没船回美洲).菲律宾殖民地财政收入里, 最大的部分来自美洲运来的银子, 其次便是从当地华人那里征收的税款和执照费 1630 年到 1634 年的财政情况:

| 年份 | 总收入 | 来自美洲 | 收自华人 |

| 1630 | 555,775 | 278,115 | 87,606 |

| 1631 | 475,889 | 203,915 | 116,697 |

| 1632 | 622,484 | 232,569 | 105,898 |

| 1633 | 546,873 | 277,326 | 109,260 |

| 1634 | 715,849 | 308,396 | 162,941 |

| |1631 年这两条船更具体的情况还没有看到, 但圣佛朗西斯科这条船在随后的几年里多次担任给西班牙在台湾的基地运输补给的任务, 有时是单独行动. 有时考虑到这种行动有可能与荷兰人遭遇, 这条船的装备, 尺寸应该都不太差. 另一条船没有更多的发现, 只在 1639 年在欧洲与荷兰人海战的序列里有一条同名的船, 不过不一定是同一条船.从 1630 年到 1632 年, 荷兰人也因为从欧洲的援军没有到, 力量有所减弱, 对西班牙人的影响比以前大为减小. 很晚才开始写, 更多的情况, 包括西班牙人在台湾的情况, 下次再写吧.


钱水廷 于 2011-9-30 12:12:15 发表了:

rottenweed 发表于 2011-9-30 10:40

看了你这些资料,怎么觉得打完郑家后,准备个一两年把西班牙人和荷兰人全灭很容易啊?

另外,1630 年西班牙 ...

西班牙人在 1626 到 1642 年在台湾北部有基地, 在基隆和淡水都有驻扎, 在基隆建了个四边形的棱堡, 在淡水也有一个圣多明哥要塞, 至今还保留着. 但西班牙人在远东力量太弱, 连马尼拉都经常被荷兰人封锁, 无力巩固台湾基地. 在打退荷兰人的 1641 年的进攻后, 1642 年被迫投降, 失去了这个基地.

如果需要, 在海军规模扩大后, 我们是可以不太费力就把欧洲人赶出马六甲以外. 那时候这种远程增援太困难, 热带病又死很多, 欧洲人的力量没有多大.


钱水廷 于 2011-10-4 04:48:52 发表了:

本帖最后由 钱水廷 于 2011-10-4 04:49 编辑 从美洲通过马尼拉大帆船对菲律宾进行人员和资金的补给是在西班牙王室的授权下, 由新西班牙(西班牙美洲殖民地)来具体执行的. 他可以根据自己的判定, 在一定范围内增减补给量. 在给国王的信中可以看出, 在 Juan Niño de Tavora(塔沃拉)担任总督期间, 总是在抱怨没有得到足够的经费, 没有足够的兵力, 和一系列的困难. 在 1632 年 7 月 8 日塔沃拉的最后一份报告里(塔沃拉死于 1632 年 7 月 23 日), 他又重复了这一点. 他在 1631 年仅得到八十个士兵的补充和 20 万比索, 1632 年得到了 90 个士兵和 23 多万比索. 他实在是过不下去了. 这份报告加了 1633 年 9 月的批注(已经过了发船的时间), 提示要在给美洲的命令里提到这一条, 1634 年, 菲律宾得到 30 万比索, 不知是不是这最后的求援起了作用. 报告里提到国王派来的钦差大臣办事认真, 但似乎管得太宽, 太细, 要求国王加以限制. 和泰国的关系仍然不很好. 但和日本的关系稍有改进, 日本来的通商船出现了, 并要将日本的天主教徒驱逐到菲律宾, 总督向国王要额外的安置费. 跟柬埔寨的关系不错, 他居然要从那里买船. 同时荷兰人的势力在减弱. 他报告 1631 年在甲米地港里沉掉的船是由于人为失误和超载(!), 而不是因为造船使用了没有干燥的木材或船体的缺陷(但这些问题后来依然被作为限制在马尼拉造船的理由). 最有意思的是, 1628 年出去的一条船没有载货单, 总督说这事就这么发生了, 他也没法解释, 不过船上的东西都是军官们自己的, 他本人没有参与对美洲的非法贸易. 不管美洲那些不干正事的人怎么说, 反正他是清白的. 他应该确实参与了, 只是用手下军官作替罪羊罢了, 同时也说明马尼拉大帆船的载货远大于那点官银. 一条船没出海就沉了, 而总督也被人告了, 正说明贸易规模很大, 那么从美洲回来的船上的走私获利银子肯定不少. 反正说有一百万两我也相信了.塔沃拉写完这信以后很快就死了, 1633 年的报告是临时总督(Juan Cerezo de Salamanca)写的, 他直接的写明西班牙在远东共有十九个连的部队(一个连应该有 150 人, 但因为不能及时补充, 多数连只有 100 人左右. 其中六个连住马尼拉, 在甲米地港口要塞有一个连. 在台湾有三个连. 在摩鹿甲的要塞(Terrenate)有六个连, 其余散在一些岛屿上. 他一方面说自己对台湾的情况还不太了解, 同时又认为把部队放在那里完全是浪费, 考虑是否应该撤出台湾. 他准备以三年每年两个连轮换的方式让摩鹿甲的部队得到轮休. 他同时报告有巨额财政赤字, 舰队状态极差, 几乎无船可用. (似乎他的机动力量只有两条盖伦船).从这些情报可以看出西班牙的力量非常薄弱, 同时西班牙还有数量不清的菲律宾土著军队. 有一份记录从 1574 到 1644 年西班牙在远东历次军事行动的人数. 土著军队最多能出动约三千人. 但在 1626-1627 对台湾的行动中, 出动人数分别是:1626 西班牙军队 500 人, 土著 1200 人.1627 西班牙军队 731 人, 土著 280 人.由于这期间西班牙要镇压在 Jolo 的土著暴动, 机动部队都被派到那里. 我们可以假设驻扎台湾的菲律宾土著军队与西班牙军队数量相当, 即各有三个不满员的连, 总数 600-700 人, 并有部分分兵在淡水(50 西班牙人, 100 菲律宾人).


塞那提斯 于 2011-10-4 10:30:13 发表了:

西班牙在东亚的力量实在可怜的一塌糊涂啊。。。。。


cqduoluo 于 2011-10-4 16:52:26 发表了:

当时殖民者在远东的实力都不怎么样,以穿越者的实力也就一场小战役就能解决了。

老钱应该多找找荷兰的资料,那时候西班牙人实力在远东只能排第二,在台北的城堡都被荷兰人端了,荷兰人才是大敌。

当然荷兰人的老巢比较远,要杀光不容易。


cqduoluo 于 2011-10-4 16:53:35 发表了:

而且荷兰人也很残暴,连英国人都杀,害得那几年英国人的船都不敢来远东了。


isdily 于 2011-10-4 17:09:54 发表了:

话说这个时代临高跟西洋人的主要合作者只能是荷兰人了吧,毕竟英荷海战还有的打,在英国人爪子伸过来之前咱还得靠荷兰人提供其他大明不足的物资啊


兰度 于 2011-10-4 22:18:37 发表了:

俺记得钱兄原来的帖里有地图,能不能给配上?俺写同人也方便一些。


钱水廷 于 2011-10-4 22:39:02 发表了:

本帖最后由 钱水廷 于 2011-10-4 22:46 编辑 西班牙的情报应该差不多了, 我回头找找荷兰人的. 只不过没有找到这样一套现成的关于 VOC 的资料, 都是零星的. 其实有一套 VOC 的原始资料, 一来是(古)DUTCH 的, 二来好象要注册登记的帐户才能用.另外到现在我还不能上传图, 也没找到一个合适的图床, LK 那边上载的图这边看不到, SC 那里干脆就没法找相册里图的连接了. 给个建议吧. 我还看到一份英国住日本办事处的资料, 不过那时候似乎轮不到英国人. 那一阵有个英国办事处的头净被中国人(多半是李旦或着郑芝龙, 忽悠要给官员贿赂才能买到中国货, 或者得到通商的机会, 待了几年光出钱也没回报, 结果给免职了.


兰度 于 2011-10-4 23:57:33 发表了:

图可以用附件传上来。


钱水廷 于 2011-10-5 00:27:04 发表了:

本帖最后由 钱水廷 于 2011-10-5 00:28 编辑

兰度 发表于 2011-10-4 23:57

图可以用附件传上来。

在 SC 的原文 http://www.sbanzu.com/topicdisplay\_safe.asp?TopicID=3629821

发现漏了一些早期的报告:

在 1630 年 7 月 30 日的报告里, 紧接着上面的信, 总督又写了这么一封, 懒得翻了, 就是那些监察官给国王写信没给总督看就封起来了, 总督不高兴, 说他们不效忠陛下, 挑起内部战争啥的.

马尼拉市政官(Dominican)给国王写信(1629 年 5 月 12 日),报告菲律宾/马尼拉,没有海军,只有很少的陆军分散在各处,士兵大量死于气候不适,食物缺乏和恶劣的生活 。荷兰人无处不在。因为贸易的中断,这里消耗着大量的钱财却没有创造财富。如果能有一只小型舰队,则可以用更小的成本创造更大的价值,而士兵的士气也会更高,即使他们战死,也可以说是死得其所,而不是像前面说的那样死的毫无价值。

总督 Juan de Tavora; 1629 年 8 月 1 日写给国王的报告.

一上来就哭穷, 嫌从美洲运来的钱不够. 挣钱也不容易. 他们控制的地盘能保证每年大约四十吨的丁香, 当地值四千比索. 要是给当地人衣服, 用品什么的, 还可以省一半. 这些丁香卖到印度能值三万五千比索. 在菲律宾当地造一条一百五十吨的船要 1 万 5 千比索. 8 门八磅或十二磅的青铜炮要四千比索. 另外 25 个水手加 25 个火枪手, 船长什么的, 一千比索. 总共要两万比索造船才能卖那丁香, 而且还有被荷兰人打劫的可能性. 荷兰人经常从雅加达跑到新加坡一带打劫, 他们也知道澳门印度之间的船防御不足.

又说中国人比印度人(本地土著?)种地好, 要求租地给他们, 并每人贷款 25 比索, 鼓励他们定居. 这样靠地租每年能增收四万比索, 而且增加粮食自给度. 希望国王同意, 并追加五千比索作为启动贷款. (我们也可以考虑用贷款和租地吸引移民, 而不用光买人)

(这个报告还有, 回头再翻)

另一个没有落款的报告写于 1630 年 7 月, 应该不是总督, 记录了前面提到的和 Jolo 岛上的人打仗和阵亡了的船长 Botello 的事迹. 其中提到讨伐 Jolo 的部队有 400 西班牙人和 2500 印度人(菲律宾人). 乘坐船只包括一条 galley, 三条 brigantines, 十二条类似 patache 的小型货船, 以及大约 50 条本地的(大型)划艇, 单侧有 30-40 只浆. (他的运输船不算太好)

里面提到的几个地名的位置:

Fort of Terrenate 0° 53' 51.81" N  127° 18' 59.89" E

Ambueno: Ambon

3° 44' 21.18" S  128° 2' 18.40" Ehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambon\_Island

Jolo: 6° 2' 54.79" N  121° 0' 38.26" Ehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolo

Mindanao: 棉兰老岛

Cagayan: 18°26′35″N 121°48′39″E;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cagayan

图只有一张, 就是 Terrenate 要塞的, 莫非兰兄说的是别的图, 比如台湾早期地图什么的?


兰度 于 2011-10-6 00:18:48 发表了:

记得你原来发过马尼拉旧城的老地图,能发上来共享一下么?


钱水廷 于 2011-10-6 00:48:35 发表了:

兰度 发表于 2011-10-6 00:18

记得你原来发过马尼拉旧城的老地图,能发上来共享一下么?

那几张图在 SC 号召打劫马尼拉大帆船的贴子下. 现在 SC 不正常, 我找找贴上来. 记得我还查过几个地图上的西班牙语注释, 炮台, 军火库, 兵营什么的好象都有.

另外, 我终于找到荷兰人的资料库了! 有当年从欧洲发往亚洲的船的详细记录, 比西班牙的那个还全, 来自 VOC 的官方记录. 可惜没有回程的, 而且在亚洲的目的地基本都是巴它维亚, 没有到台湾的. 还有 VOC 的官方通讯记录, 可惜是荷兰语的, 只好接谷歌翻译了. 几个在亚洲殖民地的基地日记(应该是在摩鹿加群岛的), 也是荷兰语. 最可惜的是它有热遮兰基地的官方日记(1629-1662), 但是没有电子版的. 据说这套书的第一册在台湾也出版了. 我还没顾得上找, 大家也找找看吧.


sbzsnowtiger 于 2011-10-6 00:55:16 发表了:

钱水廷 发表于 2011-10-5 00:27

在 SC 的原文 http://www.sbanzu.com/topicdisplay\_safe.asp?TopicID=3629821

发现漏了一些早期的报告 ...

这棱堡看着不难对付啊,六寸级别榴弹轰杀无鸭梨


钱水廷 于 2011-10-6 02:55:47 发表了:

本帖最后由 钱水廷 于 2013-6-5 07:37 编辑

兰度 发表于 2011-10-6 00:18

记得你原来发过马尼拉旧城的老地图,能发上来共享一下么?

这里有一些早期的马尼拉的地图和主要建筑的建筑设计图.注意很多图的方向都不是

按通常的习惯. 记住城的西面是海湾, 北面是条大河(Pasig)就行了. 马尼拉沿岸和

河口都有泥沙堆积, 所以马尼拉的港口实际用的是 CAVITE, 中文大概是甲米地.

1620 年马尼拉人口约四万, 中国人聚居在 Pasig 河北岸的地区.

1640-1650 的马尼拉.(上面是西)

甲米地

马尼拉周边

下面这个是德州大学图书馆的地图收藏, 有个 1851 年的比较详细, 虽然差的时间久

些, 像总督府, 市长宅第什么的, 我估计可能位置还差不多. 图的上面标着重要地

标建筑在图中的编号, 不过是西班牙语的.

简单看了一下图标,

1 主炮台

2 军械库

3 可能是监军/督察的住址或办公处, 就叫监察院吧.

4 军队医院

5 海关

6 圣托马斯大学

7 cabildo, 英语是 Chapter, 不明白, 不过在市长广场旁边, 应该是个官邸或办公楼.

8 看不出是什么宫.

9 大概是主教官邸

10 大概是会计室(财务办公楼?)

manila_1851.jpg(856.67 KB, 下载次数: 3)

马尼拉 1851 地图

2011-10-6 02:14 上传


钱水廷 于 2011-10-11 11:50:58 发表了:

关于荷兰人的情报进展不大, 电子版的荷兰文材料因为不是普通文本, 没法 C&P

不过也有一些荷兰人在亚洲航行的资料, 回头整理以下, 争取发个摘要.

求几本中文书:

热兰遮城日志, (台)江树生译

东印度事务报告

荷据时代台湾史, 杨彦杰, 江西人民出版社, 1992

帝国相接之界, 吕理政, 2006

巴达维亚城日志(台)


钱水廷 于 2013-6-4 23:03:05 发表了:

麻烦给转进子区吧.


给猪做麻醉 于 2013-6-5 20:12:50 发表了:

那岂不是说狒狒们可以以南洋步枪+12 磅前膛炮直接砸??


isdily 于 2013-6-5 20:30:18 发表了:

给猪做麻醉 发表于 2013-6-5 20:12

那岂不是说狒狒们可以以南洋步枪+12 磅前膛炮直接砸??

估计为了减少伤亡,还是要上臼炮。


钱水廷 于 2013-7-22 22:18:29 发表了:

The Manila Galleons

by Steve Singer

The Portuguese explorer, Ferdinand   Magellan, had reached the Philippines from Europe in 1521 during his circumnavigation of the world, though the Philippines were already a well known trading center with the merchants and sailors of the Far East. The Spanish were the first Europeans to attempt to colonize the Philippines.

Though the Spanish had reached the Philippines from Mexico prior to 1564, they could never find a return route back eastward. It was a small fleet of four ships, under Miguel Lopez de Legazpi, who finally found a route in 1565. Don Luis de Velasco sent this expedition under the direction of Phillip II. and accompanying this fleet was Andres de Urdaneta, who had previously sailed with Loaysa to those seas in 1525. This fleet left Mexico on November 21, 1564 t begin the 9,000 nautical mile trek to the Philippines. They sighted the island of Samar on February 13, 1565 and anchored off the island of Cebu on April 27, 1565. The fleet split up, and some went south as far as New Guinea looking for a route back. Urdaneta believed the route back would be found to the north. The San Lucas of only 40 tons, went far to the north near Japan, where she found the westerly trade winds and favorable currents, which bore her back to the California coast near Cape Mendocino, which she then followed south, arriving back at Acapulco, October of 1565. Oddly enough, it was the San pablo of the same fleet, which followed the San Lucas shortly thereafter, which received the credit for discovering this route back. One source says that one of the galleons had deserted (probably the San Lucas) and discovered the route back arriving in Acapulco in July of 1565. It also states that Urdaneta (on another vessel) went as far north as 38 degrees off Japan and then headed on a southerly course in which no land was encountered and most of the crew had died before reaching Acapulco.

Thus started the trading route of the Manila galleon or "nao de la China", which meant "the ship of China." Legazpi's own ship, the San Pablo of 300 tons, was the first Manila galleon to wreck in 1568, en route back to Mexico. Over the years, over forty Manila galleons were lost, many carrying some of the richest cargoes ever transported on the high seas. Many others were captured or destroyed by vessels of Spain's enemies, such as the British and Dutch. A few vessels sailed from Manila directly to Spain rounding the cape of Good Hope, but these voyages were soon stopped by their enemy the Dutch, who controlled this sea route.

Legazpi became the first Royal Governor of the Philippines. King Philip II of Spain, who the Philippines are named after, gave explicit orders to Legazpi to bring the Philippines under Spanish control without bloodshed. Unlike the cruelty inflicted on the native populations of the New World by Pizzaro and Cortes, Legazpi treated most of the natives of the Philippines with respect, and soon the majority of natives accepted the Spanish, who took control of most the island, and also converted most of the population to Christianity. The only resistance came from the Muslims in the south, which continued into the nineteenth century, and from the Igorat, the upland tribal people in the north. Also, two attacks by the Portuguese in 1568 and 1571 were repulsed by the Spanish. Cebu was made the headquarters of the Spanish until 1571, when Legazpi defeated a local Muslim ruler and made Manila the new Spanish capital. Manila had an excellent natural harbor, a large population, and an ample food supply from the central Luzon rice fields.

Though the Philippines provided some products, it was spices and other items from the "Spice Islands", and silk, porcelain, gold, ivory, gemstones, jade, mercury, and other valuables from China which made the Manila galleon trade so lucrative. In 1571, the crew of a Chinese vessel which had wrecked in the Philippines, was rescued by the Spanish, and the next year a Chinese vessel arrived in Manila carrying trade goods in gratitude thus starting a direct trade route with China. Goods from India and elsewhere in Southeast Asia also made their way to Manila. Some trading was also done with Japan, though Japan closed herself off from the West in 1638, though some small amount of trading continued with the Dutch. Europe and the New World's appetite for these products from the Far East became insatiable, and the huge profit margin made the perilous journey worthwhile. There was a great demand in China for silver from the mines of the New World, and the westbound Manila Galleons were loaded with this silver. Coinage from the New World was also used by the Chinese for their own monetary system.

The voyage from Acapulco to the Philippines was a relatively easy one. By 1570, Acapulco became the trading port of the Manila galleons in the Americas, due to its excellent harbor, and overland accessibility to Vera Cruz on the Caribbean side of Mexico. Many treasure laden vessels brought silver from the New World mines such as the one at Potosi, Peru (now part of Bolivia), to Acapulco, and some of these vessels were also lost on the west casts of South and Central America. Leaving from Acapulco , in January, the Manila galleons would sail the usually calm seas to the Marianas using the favorable trade winds, and then on to the Philippines, which took a total of about three months time, though some of these Philippine bound vessels did wreck due to storms or other mishap, Until 1593, three or more ships would sail each year from both ports. Because the Manila trade was becoming so lucrative, Spanish merchants back home complained of lost profits and a law was passed in 1593 allowing only two ships to sail each year from either port, with one in reserve in both Acapulco and Manila. Even the tonnage of the vessels and their cargo was restricted under this new law, but these restrictions were largely ignored and were not enforced. These ships wee the largest the Spanish built. In the 16th century, they averaged from 1,700 to 2,000 tons and seven hundred to over one thousand people would take passage back to Acapulco on these vessels. Though th Spanish tried to send two ships each year after 1593, many years saw only one ship making the voyage back to Acapulco, which became known as one of the longest and most dangerous voyages that one could make. Though ideally it could take four months to reach Acapulco, seven months or more was more often the case. Often a great number of people would die during these voyages from disease or malnutrition, sometimes numbering over half the people on board. One example of the perilous voyage was that of the Manila galleon San Jose, which was found drifting off the Mexican coast during the mid 17th century, over a year after she left Manila. Not one person was left alive, all having died from disease or starvation. Another example is that of the Santa Margarita. She left Manila in 1600, and battled the elements for eight months, until she wrecked on Carpana Island in the Marianas, with few survivors.

After leaving the port of Cavite on Manila Bay, usually in July, a Manila Galleon would have to thread its way through the many islands and reefs toward the northern Marianas, which could take weeks. Many a galleon was lost on these reefs. They would then head to the northern latitudes near Japan and hope favorable winds and currents would take them eastward. With no landfall for the next three, four, or more months, life on board could become unbearable. Eventually they would come into site of Cape Mendocino or nearby, off the northern California coast, and follow this coastline south to Acapulco. A number of these Manila Galleons were also lost along this coastline.

Once at Acapulco, goods were traded among merchants from all over the New World, and most of the goods ended up being transported overland to Vera Cruz, where they would then be loaded onto ships of the   Nueva Espana Fleet, which in turn headed to Havana, and then back to Spain. Many of these vessels also wrecked, and much of these Far East treasures have been salvaged from these shipwrecks. The 1715 and 1733 Plate Fleet wrecks off Florida have yielded many artifacts from the Orient, such as porcelain and jewelry. A Spanish wreck found in the western hemisphere with cargo from the Far East would most surely have to have wrecked after 1565, though goods from China didn't start to arrive in Acapulco until 1573.

Ming and Ching dynasty porcelain carried by Spanish vessels from the Philippines, and then the New World, are a very good tool in helping date a shipwreck, since these fine objects have been studied in great detail and are easily dateable. Most of the Manila galleons were eventually built in the Philippines at the Cavite shipyards and also at palantiau, and though they used the European design, they were sturdier, being built from the abundance of hardwoods available there, such as teak and mahogany. The Planking was built of lanang wood, which was so strong, it repelled cannon ball shot. This material could also help to identify a Manila galleon wreck. Manila hemp soon became known as some of the best rigging material available, and became another sought after commodity.

The ship Magallanes left manila in 1811, and returned four years later, thus ending the last voyage of a Manila galleon. A number of reasons accounted for the Spanish decline there and elsewhere. Competition with other countries in the china trade, and trouble back at home, eventually led to the end of Spain's dominance in the China trade.

The Manila galleon wrecks are some of the richest in the world today. It should also be noted that along with any registered treasure carried by these ships, almost as much was being smuggled on a regular basis. Only a few have been found so far. These are: The Nuestra Senora de la Concepcion - From Manila bound for Acapulco, she wrecked on the southwest tip of the island of Saipan, Sept. 20, 1638. She was the largest Spanish vessel built up to this time, displacing about 2,000 tons. William Mathers, an American, located the wreck in 1987, and has since salvaged many priceless treasures from the site. The site is now overlooked by a golf course, and Ming dynasty porcelain shards are scattered along the coastline, which helped to pinpoint the wreck.

Nuestra Senora del Pilar - Wrecked in 1690 on the southwest tip of Guam. This wreck has also been located within the last few years and has been actively worked by divers.

San Agustin - World renown archaeologist/treasure hunter, Robert Marx, has located the wreck of the San Agustin, which was one of a fleet of four galleons from Manila bound for Acapulco, which wrecked in Drake's Bay north of San Francisco, in 1690, and now lies in part of the Point Reyes National Seashore Park. I've read of his attempts to get permission to do some excavation on the site, but legal restrictions have so far prevented any attempt.

San Diego - This wreck was discovered in Manila Bay in 1991. It is presently being excavated by divers, and has yielded over 28,000 items to date. I've also heard of other Manila galleons having been discovered in the Philippines by local fishermen and divers, though I'm not sure if any of these are being actively worked under a government lease.

A number of undiscovered wrecks also lie off the California and Mexican coast.

Santa Marta - Ran aground on Santa Catalina Island in 1528. Crew and some cargo was saved. Unknown if further salvage was attempted.

Nuestra Senora de Ayuda - 320 tons, wrecked on a rock, west of Catalina Island in 1641. Some crew survived, but cargo was lost.

San Sebastian - attacked by English pirate George Compton, Jan. 7, 1754, she was run aground just west of Santa Catalina Island, and soon sunk in about 170' of water.

A number of other areas along Oregon and California have yielded artifacts from the Far East, and could belong to a wrecked Manila galleon.Santa Maria de los Valles - 1,500 tons, left Manila in 1668 with 778 people and a very valuable cargo. After much hardship, she arrived at Acapulco two days before Christmas, and dropped anchor. Two hours later she caught fire and sank within an hour, taking with her all the treasure valued at over3,000,000 pesos and more than 330 people.

The majority of Manila galleons sank in the Philippines and surrounding areas, including China and Japan. I'll mention a few of these.

San Martin - Patache, wrecked off the coast of China near Canton in 1578, with much silver on board. Two more vessels were also lost near Canton in 1598.

San Francisco - Wrecked off eastern Kyushu, Japan, in 1608, with a large amount of gold and silver.

Santissima Trinidad - Left Manila in 1616 witha cargo valued at over 3,000,000 pesos. A typhoon hit and she wrecked on Cape Satano, at the southern end of Japan.

Jesus Maria and the Santa Ana - Both these vessels sank in the San Bernardino Straight with over 2,000,000 silver pesos, after doing battle with a superior Dutch fleet, which ambushed them there in 1620.

San Ambrosio and another ship - Coming from Acapulco, both vessels were lost during a typhoon on the coast of Cagayan in 1639, along with 2,000,000 silver pesos.

Santo Cristo de Burgos - She grounded offshore of Ticao Island, Philippines, in 1726. Crew was saved, but the ship and very valuable cargo were lost due to fire. Another vessel, the San Andres, wrecked on Naranjos shoals near Ticao, October 1797, and part of her valuable cargo was lost.

Santa Maria Madalena - Crammed with so much cargo as to make her unsafe, she left Cavite in 1734, and capsized and sank within a few hundred yards of her anchorage.

These are just a few of the many ships which wrecked on the perilous Manila galleon route. As time goes on, and technology improves, many more of these galleons will be found.

Source: 1. Bunge, Frederica M. (Editor). Philippines a country study. Washington D.C. : Dept. of the Army, U.S. Government Printing Office, 1983. 2. Lyon, Eugene.   National Geographic Magazine, September 1990, pages 5-37, "Track of the Manila Galleons". 3. Mathers, William M. Ibid, pages 39-52, "Nuestra Senora de la Concepcion". 4 Marx, Robert. Shipwrecks in Mexican Waters. Deportes Acuaticos de Mexico, Juarez, Mexico, 1971. 5. Marx, Robert. Skin Diver Magazine, March 1993, pages 49 and 166, "Ten Richest Wrecks in Latin America". 6. Marx, Robert. Ibid, April 1992, page 44, "The 10 Richest Undiscovered Wrecks". 7. Potter, John S. The Treasure Diver's Guide. Port Salerno: Florida Classics Library, 1988. 8. Treasure Quest Magazine. Vol. IV-4, Fall 1993, page 15. 9. Winsor, Justin (Editor), Narrative and Critical History of America, Vol. II, Discoveries of the Pacific Coast of North America. Cambridge, Mass.: Haughton, Mifflin and Co., 1886


钱水廷 于 2013-7-22 22:32:59 发表了:

本帖最后由 钱水廷 于 2013-7-22 10:05 编辑

SOME SPANISH WARSHIPS IN 17th CENTURYhttp://koti.mbnet.fi/felipe/Spai ... _17th__century.html

西班牙风帆战舰的 WIKI, 不过没看到 1632 年这两条船, 估计是西班牙本土舰队的船.http://oceania.pbworks.com/w/page/8470670/Spanish-Sailing-Navy

这里给出了船吨位的算法.

长度单位是"肘", 1 肘 = 0.5747m (一老肘 = 0,5573 m. 呵呵)公式(直到 1633)((beam x depth)/2 ) x (length/8) = 商用吨位, 军用吨位再乘 1.14.1633 年后   beam x (0.5 x depth) x (0.5 x (keel + length)/ 8)

另外在这里出现的船, 极少有吨位超过 1000 的.

另外, 居然找到圣雷蒙多(疑似)的资料了...http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/shipwrecks/11437-manila-galleons-2.html

1639 年, 有一条叫圣雷蒙多的 300 吨的辅舰(不是旗舰) 3 月 30 日离开 Acapulco, 8 月 5 日在 Nueva Sergovia, Cagayan 损失掉了.

在 1632 年前后, 圣路易斯和圣雷蒙多曾多次执行马尼拉-美洲之间的航行任务,

圣路易斯: 1624 最早出现, 随后出现在 1626, 1627, 1628, 1632, 1633, 1635, (之后就是 1642, 1644, 1646)

圣雷蒙多: 1626, 1628, 1632, 1634, 1638. 其中 1626, 1628 和 1632 年, 这两条船曾三次结伴.

西班牙 ARMADA 的资料网址.http://www.armada15001900.net/ingles/ing102404.htm